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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#221

Post by blaser-waffle »

throwout98423 wrote: post #180

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

> You often hear this advice but for someone who has a difficult time starting things, the idea of "building systems" is overwhelming.

Interesting. Elaborate please.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#222

Post by fxtentacle »

Procrastination is a word often used to describe others without knowing the internal state.

If my boss decides on a fancy but obviously useless project and I work on something else instead, then to the uninitiated onlooker it might look as if I am procrastinating, whereas in reality I am following up on a rational decision not to waste my valuable lifetime on a useless initiative.

Similarly, students not studying for a test looks like procrastination to the parents, but if the student knows that the test results don't matter, it can be a good and rational decision to spend your effort on something else instead. "Procrastinating" on learning for a Latin exam and instead coding in C++ for fun seems like a highly profitable choice.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#223

Post by ben_w »

platz wrote: post #158
ben_w wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always map lots of small reward functions onto a single large one. For a fictitious example, total_reward = sin(time_of_day) × dopamine_reward + (oxytocin_reward / adrenaline_reward)

How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA? Just because it's a mathematicians/economists wish doesn't mean it's correct. Why did the drunken man look under the streetlight for his keys? "Didn't loose them here, but that's where the light is"

> How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA?

You add them by asking how much each part of the utility function makes you want to do a thing.

As TeMPOraL says, for your specific example you could do that in dollars, but perhaps a more emotionally affective example than USA icons would be asking how many oranges someone would need to offer you to convince you to have a hand amputation without anaesthetic: if you’re well fed, it’s ridiculous to even ask as even a lifetime supply of citrus fruit won’t come close, but if you’re literally starving to death you might well choose to lose a hand to gain anything edible.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#225

Post by swiley »

jhayward wrote: post #219
swiley wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending 4 years around people high on prescription amphetamines in an engineering school, here’s my impression as someone who was mostly sober: (during the day anyway) They look (to me) like they just make that effect where some people get hung up on certain classes of ideas way stronger, if it happens to be video games you won’t get anything done but if it happens to be math then you’ll probably get very good…

This comment is a non-sequitor to the parent. You appear to be referring to neurotypical people abusing amphetemines ("people high on .."). GP is referring to using a prescription to manage an actual disorder. They're not the same thing, at all. Please do not commit the offense of saying that there's no such thing as ADHD, "everyone has trouble doing ..", etc.

I absolutely think there is a such thing as ADHD and these people were prescribed the medication to manage it. There was one person who I think managed to get a prescription despite being “normal” and I didn’t notice much about him that changed but we also didn’t hang out much after that.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#226

Post by noodle_face_ »

swiley wrote: post #205
throwout98423 wrote: post #180

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

After spending 4 years around people high on prescription amphetamines in an engineering school, here’s my impression as someone who was mostly sober: (during the day anyway) They look (to me) like they just make that effect where some people get hung up on certain classes of ideas way stronger, if it happens to be video games you won’t get anything done but if it happens to be math then you’ll probably get very good…

Can you provide a little elaboration on "the worst to be around"? What makes it like that for you?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#227

Post by swiley »

noodle_face_ wrote: post #226
swiley wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After spending 4 years around people high on prescription amphetamines in an engineering school, here’s my impression as someone who was mostly sober: (during the day anyway) They look (to me) like they just make that effect where some people get hung up on certain classes of ideas way stronger, if it happens to be video games you won’t get anything done but if it happens to be math then you’ll probably get very good…

Can you provide a little elaboration on "the worst to be around"? What makes it like that for you?

I don’t know, they’re less self aware and extremely assertive? They’re usually way louder.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#228

Post by LameRubberDucky »

kharak wrote: post #129
Brave-Steak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made a similar realization recently. It seems that I've built a life around consumption. Watching TV series, movies, playing games. I think we're not made for this. There's nothing there to really push us to grow as a person (especially if it's all we do), thus the emptiness (and often loneliness). I've thought about how to restructure my life into one of production instead of consumption, but it's difficult (to…

Good insight, I share your problem. Producing instead of consuming, in my free time, is what I like to do. But nothing seems worth it or I lack the skills and resources to do so. And so I remain where I am. Quit comfortably, all in all, but couldn't it be better?

Does it need to be better? There are many quotes about simply being content in life. I finally realized it's okay for me to spend time playing Call of Duty if that's what I want to do. If I wasn't doing that, I'd most likely be doing some other hobby that may not have any particular value either. As long as I take care of my health, family, and job, my "spare" time is mine.

Edit: Yuck, that sounds worse when I read it back. I do volunteer and donate to charity as well. I'm not completely selfish.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#229

Post by leftyted »

agumonkey wrote: post #214
INGELRII wrote: post #124

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

I'd be happy to go back to when we didn't have solutions. Call me crazy but I take some pleasure in maintaining good old ways that have balancing benefits for us all in the group. Granted I don't mean having to walk 10 miles with a 50kg bucket of water on my back .. but something that enforces some long time walk, physical exercise, simple team work. Even if that's just to make a shed and not a new k8s cluster to do…

This is the main way people deal with modernity: hobbies that mimic the surface characteristics of "the old ways".

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#230

Post by platz »

ben_w wrote: post #223
platz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA? Just because it's a mathematicians/economists wish doesn't mean it's correct. Why did the drunken man look under the streetlight for his keys? "Didn't loose them here, but that's where the light is"

> How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA? You add them by asking how much each part of the utility function makes you want to do a thing. As TeMPOraL says, for your specific example you could do that in dollars, but perhaps a more emotionally affective example than USA icons would be asking how many oranges someone would need to offer you to…

If you start by assuming a utility function exists, you can have it do anything you want.

But we haven't quite solved every problem in the world by creating a utility function, have we?

Why is that? Could it be that some domains resist mathematization because the objects are incommensurate?

Why don't we just create utility functions to solve politics?

We cant, because politics is unsolvable in terms of well-defined mathematization and it could very well be that human intelligence is like that too.

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