Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud' • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#51

Post by kick » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

flatline wrote: post #33

kick wrote: post #27

This thread is kind of chilling, because everyone within is treating it like it's just chat software or something. With quotes from this thread like "in the meantime the work doesn't get done," and "bid for contracts that [enable] government to make some real progress," you'd never guess this stuff is going to be used to and to enable murder. So many people were focusing on how Microsoft Ɛ> Linux or Open Source or wh…

Is all defense-related work complicit in murder? Do we not need a military? Nothing is perfect, but we are trapped on a planet with a bunch of violent, highly intelligent apes. Certainly the military does things I disagree with, and things could always be improved, but generally what is the alternative?

Answer to the first question: in the United States, yes. Whether that is a bad thing is debatable and not suited for the site we're on; try a philosophy subreddit.

The United States military has lost its privilege to play any form of moralism or rational justification after their actions over the past 30-50 years. It's no longer defense in most cases, it's assault. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, the second Iraq, invading Afghanistan for funsies, there's no point to most of it.

We've only had one success in decades, and it still wasn't even related to defense!

There's a difference between defense and imperialistic invasions, and the United States military hasn't defended much of anything at home in quite a while.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#52

Post by nova22033 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #27

This thread is kind of chilling, because everyone within is treating it like it's just chat software or something. With quotes from this thread like "in the meantime the work doesn't get done," and "bid for contracts that [enable] government to make some real progress," you'd never guess this stuff is going to be used to and to enable murder. So many people were focusing on how Microsoft Ɛ> Linux or Open Source or wh…

you'd never guess this stuff is going to be used to and to enable murder.

DoD uses a lot of linux and other open source software. Should we stop working on that too since, according to you, it's "enabling murder"?

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#53

Post by crystaldev » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

psv1 wrote: post #40

reallydontask wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any evidence backing this?

There's enough evidence for Amazon to take legal action. Then the courts decide if it's good enough.

So you mean zero, right? There's no evidence benchmark for a party taking legal action in a civil matter. Saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" doesn't strengthen an argument.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#54

Post by corporate_shi11 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #27

This thread is kind of chilling, because everyone within is treating it like it's just chat software or something. With quotes from this thread like "in the meantime the work doesn't get done," and "bid for contracts that [enable] government to make some real progress," you'd never guess this stuff is going to be used to and to enable murder. So many people were focusing on how Microsoft Ɛ> Linux or Open Source or wh…

Reality is such that militaries are necessary both for self defense and defense of the weak and vulnerable.

The US military has ensured peace and prosperity for billions around the world for decades given its formidable global presence.

Imagine the chaos and crime that would descends on a community without police or law enforcement. The world operates the exact same way. There will always be a most powerful country enforcing stability and global compliance, and I would much rather it be the US than Russia or China.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#55

Post by kick » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #44

kick wrote: post #27

This thread is kind of chilling, because everyone within is treating it like it's just chat software or something. With quotes from this thread like "in the meantime the work doesn't get done," and "bid for contracts that [enable] government to make some real progress," you'd never guess this stuff is going to be used to and to enable murder. So many people were focusing on how Microsoft Ɛ> Linux or Open Source or wh…

So, you'd rather we keep spending too much, using too little information, and putting too many innocent people at risk? I mean, it's not like we dropped more ordinance under Obama than every president before him combined, or that the trend didn't decrease by very much after him or anything. Personally, I do think our foreign deployments and presence should absolutely be dramatically reduced. I also think most federal…

How is Obama relevant, here? I don't believe I mentioned him. HN has always leaned libertarian, and just because Ron Paul isn't running right now doesn't mean suddenly every argument that's against authoritarianism is liberal.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#56

Post by psv1 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

foolfoolz wrote: post #6

this kind of stuff is such an american way of doing things. - bid for contracts that enables government to make some real progress - lose - sue because you lost, claim winner can’t start until your suit is over - introduce 1-2 year delay of waiting while your complaint is processed and people wonder why china gets things done in a quarter of the time

Imagine that they aren't suing simply because they lost. Imagine that there was actual evidence for corruption, and Amazon lost a $10-billion contract because Trump put his finger on the scale. How would the whole story look different from our perspective and on what basis did you decide that it's one and not the other?

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#57

Post by Hydraulix989 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

james-mcelwain wrote: post #45

flatline wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is all defense-related work complicit in murder? Do we not need a military? Nothing is perfect, but we are trapped on a planet with a bunch of violent, highly intelligent apes. Certainly the military does things I disagree with, and things could always be improved, but generally what is the alternative?

There's a huge, gigantic difference between not having a military at all and spending 1 trillion a year to be an imperialist superpower. It's almost like... there's a middle ground.

There's not, because it maintains a world order that would be happily taken up by someone else if the US didn't do it.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#58

Post by psv1 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

crystaldev wrote: post #53

psv1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's enough evidence for Amazon to take legal action. Then the courts decide if it's good enough.

So you mean zero, right? There's no evidence benchmark for a party taking legal action in a civil matter. Saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" doesn't strengthen an argument.

I don't know what evidence they have. Not sure why you decided that it's zero.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#59

Post by zionic » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

james-mcelwain wrote: post #45

flatline wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is all defense-related work complicit in murder? Do we not need a military? Nothing is perfect, but we are trapped on a planet with a bunch of violent, highly intelligent apes. Certainly the military does things I disagree with, and things could always be improved, but generally what is the alternative?

There's a huge, gigantic difference between not having a military at all and spending 1 trillion a year to be an imperialist superpower. It's almost like... there's a middle ground.

The thing is, we spend that much and we're not even good imperialists. When was the last time we annexed any territory? Declared a lesser state a protectorate? Or established a new colony? We spend trillions/year to be the world police so our "allies" don't have to while they mock us on twitter.

Re: Amazon asks court to halt Microsoft's work on Pentagon 'war cloud'

#60

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

james-mcelwain wrote: post #45

flatline wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is all defense-related work complicit in murder? Do we not need a military? Nothing is perfect, but we are trapped on a planet with a bunch of violent, highly intelligent apes. Certainly the military does things I disagree with, and things could always be improved, but generally what is the alternative?

There's a huge, gigantic difference between not having a military at all and spending 1 trillion a year to be an imperialist superpower. It's almost like... there's a middle ground.

The kinds of things that the military would be doing on a cloud platform seem likely to occupy that middle ground.