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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#161

Post by TeMPOraL »

lr4444lr wrote: post #143
Brave-Steak wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think we are anything more than the output of a reward function? Dopamine and other hormones function as our reward system and are so fundamental and drive effectively all of our behaviours and our learning from the moment we were born. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_system https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/151/5/1978/2456493

The fact that it disgusts him, and that you in turn might appreciate the irony of the reward system actually hating itself is pretty strong evidence that there's more to the human experience than biologically reinforced operant conditioning.

Why? That only suggests that the reward system can hate itself. It's not out of scope, much like a computer being able to self-diagnose some of its workings isn't a weird thing.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#162

Post by Ensorceled »

classified wrote: post #130
INGELRII wrote: post #124

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

> If you think humans as AI systems Humans are not "AI" systems but infinitely more complex. Which is why, among other things, humans are capable of driving a car safely while "AI" is not. I for one would feel disgusted with myself if I were to discover that I'm nothing more than the output of a reward function. YMMV.

Ironically, disgust is part of your internal reward system.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#163

Post by onefuncman »

mettamage wrote: post #127
Brave-Steak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made a similar realization recently. It seems that I've built a life around consumption. Watching TV series, movies, playing games. I think we're not made for this. There's nothing there to really push us to grow as a person (especially if it's all we do), thus the emptiness (and often loneliness). I've thought about how to restructure my life into one of production instead of consumption, but it's difficult (to…

I agree. I’ve been able to do it one time. And I promoted it on HN with a public facing account (this account is pseudo anonymous + my super hero name, if I’d be one).

hi fellow super hero

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#164

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

AstralStorm wrote: post #139
EndXA wrote: post #116

If anyone wants to learn more about this topic, I wrote an extensive overview of specific reasons why people procrastinate: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/ It covers all of the most common reasons for procrastination, such as abstract goals, a disconnect from the future self, anxiety, task aversion, perfectionism, and fear of failure. In addition, there's a comprehensive follow-up article…

Ultimate issue it does not tackle is lack of real reward. Usually when we do something that is not strictly required of us it's for a reward. (Including mutants who like solving problems just for the sake of solving problems.) Abstract rewards are obviously not rewards. They're hypotheticals. Most of the time we do not get rewarded for work, much less proportionally to effort. This of course over time ruins self-cont…

You can reward yourself for completing a seemingly arbitrary task. Every morning after completing my Anki flashcards, I force myself to lean back, smile, and feel proud for completing an exercise in discipline, even though I don't _really_ care about the cards. This alone is enough to maintain the habit.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#165

Post by inscionent »

classified wrote: post #130
INGELRII wrote: post #124

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

> If you think humans as AI systems Humans are not "AI" systems but infinitely more complex. Which is why, among other things, humans are capable of driving a car safely while "AI" is not. I for one would feel disgusted with myself if I were to discover that I'm nothing more than the output of a reward function. YMMV.

Have you seen humans drive cars?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#166

Post by XCSme »

pdbrito wrote: post #78
mettamage wrote: post #47

Yesterday I had a bit of a talk with myself about my behavior pertaining to procrastination. I am addicted to: - YouTube - Gaming Worse, I have quite a runway due to low living expenses. I came with a new idea today, I hope it helps anyone else. I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something. In order to do that I need to stay as close as to the…

I had a similar conversation with myself recently. In the spirit of sharing coping mechanisms... What I found helpful was to dig deeper into why I enjoyed playing the genres of games that I do. My favourites are MOBA/ARPG/MMORPG and there was quite some overlap in what I was enjoying. Stuff like: - MOBA - Skill based gameplay - You get better over time - You get to play with/against people better than you and learn f…

I actually reached the same conclusion as you after playing a lot of League of Legends. Why do I play that game instead of working on my projects? Because of all the reasons you mentioned, but most importantly because I am good at it and feel like I progress by getting better with each match. There's also the satisfaction of winning, especially when the odds seems against you.

I am also trying to find the same feelings while working, but getting the same rewards takes a lot more time than while gaming. Also, it's a lot easier to feel that you are bad at it or that you are not learning as much, or that maybe you are working on the wrong thing when programming than when gaming.

Also, I am really missing a real-life leaderboard. I am pretty competitive and seeing others that are way better than me motivates myself to work hard in order to get to their level. I am always looking for success stories and seeing actual numbers from great projects. I found that IndieHackers is a good place to find motivation from others' work.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#167

Post by jp555 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #154
jp555 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's MUCH more naive to assume we are just a very advanced automaton trying to optimise a reward function. What we don't know is infinitely larger than what we do know.

Where do you take that "infinitely" from? Why do you assume that what we don't know is actually "infinitely" larger?

Is a domain of unknowable unknowns not a sort of singularity (systems theory), and therefore a kind of infinite?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#168

Post by mlrtime »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #148
rocgf wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have. I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you de…

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

All this boils down to finding a purpose in life. At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel this is a burden that largely falls on men only. Women can find purpose through children or being dependent on their man for purpose. It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#169

Post by EndXA »

AstralStorm wrote: post #139
EndXA wrote: post #116

If anyone wants to learn more about this topic, I wrote an extensive overview of specific reasons why people procrastinate: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/ It covers all of the most common reasons for procrastination, such as abstract goals, a disconnect from the future self, anxiety, task aversion, perfectionism, and fear of failure. In addition, there's a comprehensive follow-up article…

Ultimate issue it does not tackle is lack of real reward. Usually when we do something that is not strictly required of us it's for a reward. (Including mutants who like solving problems just for the sake of solving problems.) Abstract rewards are obviously not rewards. They're hypotheticals. Most of the time we do not get rewarded for work, much less proportionally to effort. This of course over time ruins self-cont…

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree.

Both articles discuss the concept of rewards extensively, though sometimes using different terms, which is what might have led to your conclusion.

For example, in the 'why people procrastinate' article, this falls under reasons such as 'lack of motivation' and 'rewards that are far in the future'. In the 'how to stop procrastinating' article, this falls under various tips for increasing how rewarding tasks feel, such as 'gamify your behavior', 'create streaks', and 'visualize your future self'.

Also, two important distinctions to keep in mind with regard to this:

- Goals and rewards are not necessarily identical. For example, you might have the goal of exercising three times a week, and get a reward of being complimented on your physical change by others.

- There is a difference between goals/rewards that are abstract and goals and rewards that feel abstract. For example, even a concrete reward can feel abstract if it's far in the future.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#170

Post by toyg »

temporaryvector wrote: post #149
toyg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medication does make it a lot better If it's not too personal, could you give me a rough idea of what sort of medication you are on? In the last couple of years I started thinking maybe I should try something... Meditation has helped a lot but there are still weeks when my emotions get a bit out of control and nothing gets done.

It took some time to find a combination of medicine that worked for me, and I was pretty lucky as far as that is concerned. So my first bit of advice to anyone considering medicine is to stick with it and follow directions. It's also important to find a psychiatrist who will work with you, in my experience (your mileage will vary) it takes roughly a month or sometimes two to see if something is working, so sticking w…

Thank you, that's way more than I could hope for. Great to see it's working for you.
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