If anyone wants to learn more about this topic, I wrote an extensive overview of specific reasons why people procrastinate: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/ It covers all of the most common reasons for procrastination, such as abstract goals, a disconnect from the future self, anxiety, task aversion, perfectionism, and fear of failure. In addition, there's a comprehensive follow-up article…
Ultimate issue it does not tackle is lack of real reward. Usually when we do something that is not strictly required of us it's for a reward. (Including mutants who like solving problems just for the sake of solving problems.) Abstract rewards are obviously not rewards. They're hypotheticals. Most of the time we do not get rewarded for work, much less proportionally to effort. This of course over time ruins self-cont…
Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
141–150 of 368 posts
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#142As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…
Conscience, selfless love for our children, culture, and religion are varying levels of patch on this simple human brain chemistry. I don’t think technology adds anything fundamentally new.
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you think humans as AI systems Humans are not "AI" systems but infinitely more complex. Which is why, among other things, humans are capable of driving a car safely while "AI" is not. I for one would feel disgusted with myself if I were to discover that I'm nothing more than the output of a reward function. YMMV.
What makes you think we are anything more than the output of a reward function? Dopamine and other hormones function as our reward system and are so fundamental and drive effectively all of our behaviours and our learning from the moment we were born. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_system https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/151/5/1978/2456493
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#144As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…
> If you think humans as AI systems Humans are not "AI" systems but infinitely more complex. Which is why, among other things, humans are capable of driving a car safely while "AI" is not. I for one would feel disgusted with myself if I were to discover that I'm nothing more than the output of a reward function. YMMV.
Very interesting and heavy statement to say in this context.
(I think your comment should be upvoted just to bring this honest description of how feelings and self-image interact with our thinking)
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you think humans as AI systems Humans are not "AI" systems but infinitely more complex. Which is why, among other things, humans are capable of driving a car safely while "AI" is not. I for one would feel disgusted with myself if I were to discover that I'm nothing more than the output of a reward function. YMMV.
The human "reward function" is likely more complex than current AI - and not always particularly logical (though vaguely correlated to survival of your own genes!) - but it's probably naïve to assume that we're anything more complicated than a very advanced automaton trying to optimise a reward function...
What we don't know is infinitely larger than what we do know.
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
The human "reward function" is likely more complex than current AI - and not always particularly logical (though vaguely correlated to survival of your own genes!) - but it's probably naïve to assume that we're anything more complicated than a very advanced automaton trying to optimise a reward function...
I think it's dreadfully naive to assume there's a single, identifiable reward function.
For a fictitious example, total_reward = sin(time_of_day) × dopamine_reward + (oxytocin_reward / adrenaline_reward)
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms. Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN. So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no…
This is quite a good description of it. I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile. I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me. Why even maintain this existence...?
Even if you don't make it to the top of your value pyramid, life should offer you something.
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms. Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN. So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no…
Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have. I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you de…
Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism.
Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game:
> Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably not be advancing humanity in any way, not to mention that even making any revenue from them is relatively far-fetched, despite what IndieHackers might suggest. Therefore, I am stuck between working all day long for the unlikely chance that I might 'get rich' with some startup (and then what?) or slide into the comfort of gaming/hobbies/relaxing. Both have pros and cons, both take something from you, be it stress or time wasting. Life is hard.
Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.
Here are some blatantly false beliefs that tie into this:
Side projects are only successful if the yield either revenue or attain a vague notion of "impact". Satisfaction of whatever pass time you choose is a function of the amount of money you invest in it (buy the latest gear, invest in increasingly expensive experiences). Professional success is working at a FANG company, selling your startup after VC funding, entering the motivational speaker circuit, being a "thought leader",... "work hard, play hard" etc. etc. You have to "optimize" how you spend time in order to "maximize" your output. Which could be anything ranging from running 5 miles, meditation, writing a blog post and catching up on e-mail between waking up at 4am and breakfast, to monitoring your sleep cycles over reducing your meals to protein shakes to "not waste time eating".
You end up losing something along the way: Yourself. The things that define you as a unique human being. Having your own particular needs, desires, dreams, aspirations and wants that nobody else has.
For instance, you start running 5 miles each morning before dawn because "running invigorates you for the day to come." Well, yeah, sure, but are you actually taking this on because the idea truly resonates with you? Clicks with who you are? Or are you just waking up each morning, secretly resenting the entire thing, because some "thought leader" marketed the idea of "running = road to success" in such a way that you honestly started to believing that?
Your time is yours and yours alone. Nobody else is living your life. Sure, nothing of significance happens if you don't put in the time and effort. But that notion doesn't equate that whatever you have to do needs to answer to modern day ideals such as "useful", "successful", "productive", "rich", or whatever. Nope.
If you want to learn a language, play the guitar, write a novel, join a choir, make a stroll through the park each sunday, cook a nice meal, make photographs, sketch a drawing, read a book, play a game, go travel, etc. etc. etc
... then you should do that first and foremost because that's what YOU want to do with YOUR life...
It's awesome that Elon Musk did build up Tesla and SpaceX practically from thin air. Really awesome. And he likely enjoys doing that and he derives enormous purpose and satisfaction from those enterprises. But I am not Elon Musk. And I certainly do not aspire to become like Elon Musk.
Turns out that success and purpose are measures you have to define for yourself first and foremost. They can be literally anything, as long as they resonate with who you are. You don't have to build rockets in order to feel success. Just baking your own bread and sharing that with a friend can bring intense happiness and purpose. If you're only willing to accept that for yourself.
Everything else is above all sly marketing.
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not always true. I frequently procrastinate on things that I actively enjoy doing and want to do. There are times when I want nothing more than to be doing something and I still procrastinate doing it. This applies to things that aren't work or aren't productive just the same, things that take little effort like watching a series or playing a video game. Medication does make it a lot better and I don't procrastinate…
> Medication does make it a lot better If it's not too personal, could you give me a rough idea of what sort of medication you are on? In the last couple of years I started thinking maybe I should try something... Meditation has helped a lot but there are still weeks when my emotions get a bit out of control and nothing gets done.
As far as medication itself goes, I started with Atomoxetine (Straterra) and that barely worked for me, I also tried Methylphenidate in extended release form (Concerta) which does work but came with an annoying amount of anxiety. What works best for me is Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse), which is basically extended release amphetamine. I take 70mg daily in the morning and it works really well and doesn't produce any side effects for me. 70mg is considered a large dose, but seeing how I can sleep well and even take naps during the day (if I want), and have no anxiety, irritability or tachycardia when taking it, it seems to be an appropriate dose for me. A friend of mine suspected he had ADHD and took a much lower dose of Vyvanse (10 mg), and he was shaky and irritable right away, so in the end his diagnosis wasn't ADHD but depression, which can have similar symptoms.
Also when I started, I took fluoxetine and clonazepam to help with depression and anxiety that was caused by living with untreated ADHD, but I'm not taking that anymore because I don't need to, following doctor's advice, of course, never stop taking anti-depressants by yourself, withdrawal can be harsh if you don't take care and taper the dose off gradually. These helped me keep my mood in the right space so I could get started on working towards fixing my problems. Now I'm just taking Vyvanse, and while the dose might decrease in the future, it's likely that I'll be taking it for the rest of my life, or at least until heart problems make it impossible to keep taking it.
I hope this helps, even if it's more information that you asked for. The point I wanted to make is that while medication is there to help, it doesn't magically make the problems go away (even if the right combination can feel that way), and the same symptoms can mean many different things, so psychiatric medicine can involve a lot of trial and error, especially if you're unlucky. I found it very important to keep careful track of how my state of mind changed as I took the medicine and to report it as accurately as possible to my psychiatrist.
Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is quite a good description of it. I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile. I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me. Why even maintain this existence...?
Does procrastination often lead to depression?
However, it is near impossible to even muster a desire or motive to stop procrastinating when there seems to be no value in anything I'm doing except distraction from the anguish of dragging myself through Life.
Likely it's a feedback loop, the start of which I am not clear on.