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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#151

Post by Aeolun »

walterkrankheit wrote: post #93

Is procrastination really the biggest ailment we suffer in today's world? There's an awful lot of concern over it. Although remote working is possibly its biggest contributor when it comes to professional procrastination. I mean, when in an office surrounded by others, sure, you could, but only if everyone else is and that's not likely to be the case.

Huh? I’m working in a bigger corporation, and if I just faff around for a day I’m not sure anyone would notice.

Of course I can’t spend it watching cat videos, but reading reddit or HN is very possible (or basically anything that looks workish).

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#152

Post by mlrtime »

d4nt wrote: post #142
INGELRII wrote: post #124

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function” is an instance of an age old question about what’s really important in life. Most people agree that taking lots of heroin and dying in a matter of months is suboptimal. Most people also agree that living a life of utter sacrifice in pursuit of some higher goal might not be good either. You might be working on something pointless. Some self interest is actually bene…

"Especially if the future fun is experienced by someone else."

I'm always reminded of the commercial where the young man saves up his money and works hard so his much older self can fly first class somewhere. I always think the same, this could be some other version of himself, does it make sense to give this your future self?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#153

Post by mikelyons »

kharak wrote: post #147
mikelyons wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite a good description of it. I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile. I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me. Why even maintain this existence...?

This sounds serious, please consider seeking mental support and health care. Even if you don't make it to the top of your value pyramid, life should offer you something.

I do all the treatments and drugs and recommendations, it doesn't change anything, but thanks for your concern.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#154

Post by TeMPOraL »

jp555 wrote: post #145
nippoo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human "reward function" is likely more complex than current AI - and not always particularly logical (though vaguely correlated to survival of your own genes!) - but it's probably naïve to assume that we're anything more complicated than a very advanced automaton trying to optimise a reward function...

I think it's MUCH more naive to assume we are just a very advanced automaton trying to optimise a reward function. What we don't know is infinitely larger than what we do know.

Where do you take that "infinitely" from? Why do you assume that what we don't know is actually "infinitely" larger?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#155

Post by Brave-Steak »

lr4444lr wrote: post #143
Brave-Steak wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think we are anything more than the output of a reward function? Dopamine and other hormones function as our reward system and are so fundamental and drive effectively all of our behaviours and our learning from the moment we were born. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_system https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/151/5/1978/2456493

The fact that it disgusts him, and that you in turn might appreciate the irony of the reward system actually hating itself is pretty strong evidence that there's more to the human experience than biologically reinforced operant conditioning.

> is pretty strong evidence that there's more to the human experience than biologically reinforced operant conditioning.

I'm not sure that follows. The reward system can't produce output by itself. It requires an input. Any input. It requires an environment, a context. And one of the possible outputs is, well, his point of view. But that doesn't invalidate the reward system. It just shows how unpredictable it is.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#156

Post by pdkl95 »

> ‘Just get started’

An unexpected side-effect of learning to use version control tools (esp. git) was significantly reduced friction before starting something. I might delay or avoid a messy refactoring or architectural change that I intelectually understood was important. Making sweeping changes across many parts of a project became a fear of "ruining the entire project". While logic usually overcame that unreasonable fear, some friction/hesitation could remain.

Training myself to always "git init" before even trivial projects and religiously commit changes while writing/editing completely removed that friction. "Of course I can start now - if I mess it up, I can just revert back to the master branch."

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#157

Post by ajayyy »

pdkl95 wrote: post #156

> ‘Just get started’ An unexpected side-effect of learning to use version control tools (esp. git) was significantly reduced friction before starting something. I might delay or avoid a messy refactoring or architectural change that I intelectually understood was important. Making sweeping changes across many parts of a project became a fear of "ruining the entire project". While logic usually overcame that unreasona…

I agree. It also lets you know where you left off since you can look at your commit message history. And, if you get lost, you can check what you've actually done since your last commit with git diff.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#158

Post by platz »

ben_w wrote: post #146
s_kilk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's dreadfully naive to assume there's a single, identifiable reward function.

You can always map lots of small reward functions onto a single large one. For a fictitious example, total_reward = sin(time_of_day) × dopamine_reward + (oxytocin_reward / adrenaline_reward)

How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA?

Just because it's a mathematicians/economists wish doesn't mean it's correct.

Why did the drunken man look under the streetlight for his keys? "Didn't loose them here, but that's where the light is"

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#159

Post by mettamage »

pdbrito wrote: post #78
mettamage wrote: post #47

Yesterday I had a bit of a talk with myself about my behavior pertaining to procrastination. I am addicted to: - YouTube - Gaming Worse, I have quite a runway due to low living expenses. I came with a new idea today, I hope it helps anyone else. I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something. In order to do that I need to stay as close as to the…

I had a similar conversation with myself recently. In the spirit of sharing coping mechanisms... What I found helpful was to dig deeper into why I enjoyed playing the genres of games that I do. My favourites are MOBA/ARPG/MMORPG and there was quite some overlap in what I was enjoying. Stuff like: - MOBA - Skill based gameplay - You get better over time - You get to play with/against people better than you and learn f…

Hmm...

What if you'd create like a software "game". Aka, a data structure and algorithm Hacker Rank thingy and then pair up with one other person over voice chat to solve the problem.

I like how you're gamifying coding by putting it in the context of what motivates you about games in the first place.

I'll look up some JS communities.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#160

Post by th_1578953940 »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #148
rocgf wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have. I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you de…

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

I needed to hear this. Thank you so much!
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