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How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

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Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#301

Post by NeedMoreTea »

xadhominemx wrote: post #290
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be tens of thousands. In 1979 there was a policy decision to end UK manufacturing and focus on the City and services. No end of highly successful UK export businesses disappeared. Many of them quietly a world leader. Many of them famous names that had existed for a century or two. Sheffield was the steel city with all the production, infrastructure and suppliers to feed all the cutlers, precision instru…

Probably a good thing that an effort was made to transition Sheffield to a services-based economy because steel was going away no matter what.

Can't agree. Mild steel and bulk wasn't the strategic industry it was once considered by every nation, and was going as it was predicated on price. That's probably fine unless there's a major war.

The hugely expensive deep specialisms, and really unusual steels and steel products that were made in just three or four places in the world, one of them Sheffield, need not. cough Iraqi supergun -- though Sheffield Forgemasters are actually one of the few still around, thanks to govt underwriting due to their nuclear capability. Funny that. Nor need the manufacturing of some of the world's finest precision tool and instrument makers. A tiny few survive, despite government best effort, not because. Most were eagerly snapped up by US, German, French or Japanese -- if they still exist at all, it's as name made elsewhere and a fattening of someone's portfolio. Of course many disappeared without trace, and of course a fair selection that weren't worth saving having got fat and lazy, or overly unionised.

While morons were cropping up on UK news throughout the eighties and nineties trying to persuade us that making anything was obsolete (and so frequently that it quickly got as overused, tedious and cliched as the recent Theresa May election slogan "strong and stable government"), Germany quietly got on with new services and manufacturing. Their mittelstand(sp?) and technical training regularly cropping up as something for the rest of Europe to envy. UK disassembled the last of the technical colleges, apprenticeships, and all the regional centres of knowledge and excellence. No matter how keen you're unlikely to pick manufacturing for your new UK business, as we are exceptional in the extent of our disassembly of the sector.

How did Sheffield's future as a centre of telephone call centres work out? Or Central Belt's reinvention as world centre of electronic and IT manufacture? How did the focus on the City work, when right after the "big bang" Wall Street went on a shopping spree of stupendous size leaving few native survivors?

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#302

Post by nick_meister »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #60
geff82 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

Indeed, expats are lured here thinking Germany is the Promised Land but realize too late that they can't afford to buy a family worthy home on your average white collar wage and due to how German corporate politics work, most of the non-natives are locked out of the lucrative careers even when speaking the language. Like someone said, Germany is a rich country of poor people.

Interesting. I live in a "third world" country (Argentina, one of the worst-performing economies in the world) and just had an interview with a German company (a large SaaS in Berlin) offering relocation to me and my family.

Not sure what to do, I have a shit boring remote email marketing job for a US company. But with my small US salary, I live quite well here (own a big house w/ 1000 sqrt. m. garden in a nice small town, good car, no commute, kids go to private German school, good weather, ..).

Not sure if our quality of life in Berlin (me being a data scientist) will be better as our quality of life here in the third world (me doing monkey work but in a cheap country).

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#303

Post by gniv »

wolfgke wrote: post #45
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, France wanted to use the Euro currency to reign in the German economy. Funny how that ended up backfiring decades later with Germany running the show.

As they say in Germany: "Bedenke wohl, worum du bittest. Es könnte dir gewährt werden." ("Consider well what you ask for. It could be granted to you.").

The phrasing I heard in the US is "be careful what you wish for, it might just come true".

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#304

Post by glofish »

magduf wrote: post #253
glofish wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fine to be frugal or go discount shopping - it is the quality of food at the American Aldi that felt me to like a really bad deal. The chicken thighs say cost fifty cents (not sure of the price but utterly cheap), but once you cook it was almost inedible, a mixture of fat and big thick bones - felt like not even fit for human consumption. Again European Aldi's are not like that.

That's because European Aldi's gets their chicken from Europe, while American Aldi's gets their chicken from America. They don't ship chicken across the Atlantic. The root issue isn't Aldi's, it's the quality of food on the different continents. Food standards are much higher in Europe, so any grocery store is going to have generally better food than stores in America, unless you only shop at high-end places like Who…

I don't follow. My point all along was that you can get much better quality (american) chicken at Walmart than at Aldi.

The only comparison to European Aldi's is to point out that in the US the food quality at Aldi is substantially worse than that of another typical local grocer, whereas in Europe it probably isn't

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#305

Post by CapricornNoble »

helij wrote: post #173
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original owners keep them for 5 years max. Nothing has to last longer than that.

Exactly. I change cars every three years now. The last one I changed after 2 years. I really don't care how reliable they are after 5 years as long as they are comfortable, frugal and safe during my ownership. Technology today just moves too fast to see myself driving 50+ miles a day in a 5+ years old car.

I'm genuinely curious what sort of technical innovations of recent cars you feel make something like a 2012 Lexus IS-F an unreasonable automotive experience by comparison, let alone a used Mercedes S65 AMG.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#306

Post by overkalix »

kaybe wrote: post #280
biztos wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American and I find Lidl to be absolutely ghetto; Aldi only marginally less so; but neither of them as scary as Netto! A lot of my friends shop at these places, because they're really cheap, and if you don't actually care who gets your money (or you can't afford to care) it's sorta like why not? In their favor I will say that there is less choice of products than in, say, a Spar or Rewe (mid-market grocery chains…

That's why you have several stores close to each other which can all stay in business. You start at Aldi and get the basics, go to Rewe for fancier things, stop by dm or Rossmann for the most fantastic selection of toiletries and hit the bakery on the way back. Or if you live in the city it's easy to take turns every few days instead of doing it all at once. addendum: I really like the efficiency of Aldi/Lidl with re…

That's not why a lot of times you can find Aldi, Lidl, Rewe, etc stores together. It's a combination of zoning regulations and Hotelling's Law.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#307

Post by oaiey »

durnygbur wrote: post #34

The most un-understandable thing is that none of this export wealth reaches an individual, especially a guest worker, a foreigner. It's quite shocking to discover by a foreigner specialist lured to the country by the multitude of positive economic news. Cost-cutting and exorbitant charges and contributions everywhere. The entire export wealth is captured by the oligarch families and the highest level executive caste.

While you are right with that the wealth does not reach most Germans, there are no oligarch families here. Just normal capitalism with a mixed ownership (e.g. US pension funds etc).

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#308

Post by Matthias247 »

cyberpunk wrote: post #260

As someone who lives and works in Germany I'm always surprised when I hear of the strength of the country. I've worked for several very large corporations here, financial and automotive, and how anything is achieved at all remains a complete mystery to me. It seems to me that all the success reported is directly in spite of their attitude towards technology and IT in general instead of because of it. The culture here…

I can feel you. I had exactly the same feeling when working for a big german cooperation. However let me tell you that the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere.

One thing you mention is domain knowledge. This actually also a big problem in the US tech companies. The people fluctuation is so high that after some years nobody might really know anymore how a certain component works. This is not that much of a problem in german companies.

Also the bigger german cooperations have I'm aware of had better planning, project management and QA than things projects I witnessed elsewhere (sample size is obviously limited). While that sounds like more bureaucratic effort, it still reduces the chaotic aspects in projects and improves the chance they will finish on time.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#309

Post by vinay427 »

jimbokun wrote: post #271
biztos wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American and I find Lidl to be absolutely ghetto; Aldi only marginally less so; but neither of them as scary as Netto! A lot of my friends shop at these places, because they're really cheap, and if you don't actually care who gets your money (or you can't afford to care) it's sorta like why not? In their favor I will say that there is less choice of products than in, say, a Spar or Rewe (mid-market grocery chains…

How do German grocery stores compare to Italy? I haven't been to Germany (outside Frankfurt airport), but on my Italian vacation last year, just going to a convenience store and picking up some bread, cheese, and fruit was cheap but WholeFoods-like quality or better. Same with their supermarkets, with regional products featured with government regulations controlling what can be labelled that way: https://www.thechef…

The point of Whole Foods (at least for those I know) isn't quality of produce. You can get similar quality produce by spending more at most other supermarkets. The point is the diversity of specialty items which I haven't really found an equivalent for in any chain store in Europe so far. I don't think that model would succeed in many European countries that are slower to adopt novel and/or imported food trends.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#310

Post by Matthias247 »

geff82 wrote: post #43
durnygbur wrote: post #34

The most un-understandable thing is that none of this export wealth reaches an individual, especially a guest worker, a foreigner. It's quite shocking to discover by a foreigner specialist lured to the country by the multitude of positive economic news. Cost-cutting and exorbitant charges and contributions everywhere. The entire export wealth is captured by the oligarch families and the highest level executive caste.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

As a german living in Canada I find grocery shopping there a lot more frustrating. Stores like Iga, Safeway and Whole Foods are quite expensive - even when compared to one of the expensive german shops (Rewe, Edeka). And the price fluctuations are wild: Something which might cost 8$ in one week might be 4$ in the next one - or at the Shoppers around the corner. Aldi is great! Good prices for decent quality. I would definitely prefer it to a Canadian Walmart.
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