How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy • Hacker News Board

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#121

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

tompccs wrote: post #90

zwieback wrote: post #31

Not a word about the fact that Germany simply produces desirable products? Somehow that has to factor in. Financial policy and the education system favors a conservative manufacturing sector that incrementally improves upon what Germany has done for decades. While I got my ME degree in Germany my dad, who is a solid state physicist, spent all his energy trying to accelerate the development of a German electronics sec…

He does talk about Germany's 200 year manufacturing excellence. That doesn't explain why in 1992 Germany had a massive trade deficit and UK had an equally large trade surplus, or how they've been able to avoid the fate of Japan.

I think the current bleak estimates for Japan are quite exaggerated. Just recently economists proclaimed that their latest success must be a statistical fluke. Just look at the living conditions there... To be honest, I believe a lot of economists are a bit of the wrong side from time to time. Maybe analysts face a bleak economic future and got something mixed up?

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#122

Post by Luc » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #116

Luc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrasing about genocidal ethnic replacement, polluting water with oil, eradication of the native French etc. etc. didn't set off any alarm bells?

You are misrepresenting the original (now unviewable) post. That is disgraceful

> You are misrepresenting the original (now unviewable) post. That is disgraceful

Uhm, those are literal quotes from the text. They're not even dog whistles, they're full on air raid sirens.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread, have a nice day.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#123

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #66

nothis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" It can't possibly be that Germany actually built its exports based on quality. That can't be replicated by tweaking some tax laws.

A few years back I worked for a large engineering services company (that nobody has ever heard of) and one of the senior managers from Germany described the quality of Mercedes-Benz cars as a "national disgrace" - he was genuinely upset about it.

The original owners keep them for 5 years max. Nothing has to last longer than that.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#124

Post by mambojumbo » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

zwieback wrote: post #31

Not a word about the fact that Germany simply produces desirable products? Somehow that has to factor in. Financial policy and the education system favors a conservative manufacturing sector that incrementally improves upon what Germany has done for decades. While I got my ME degree in Germany my dad, who is a solid state physicist, spent all his energy trying to accelerate the development of a German electronics sec…

German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add new leds and interior eye candy but that is not progress. Imo german cars are low quality and lack diversity, and same goes for most machinery made in that country. US, Japanese, South Korean or other EU made products can be of similar or higher quality. Germany has such an economic power because the EU is heavily biased towards its needs. Just have a walk around east Europe and you will see how it has become junkyard for german cars. Suddenly the environment doesnt matter. Furthermore Germany is pretty socialist, both corporate and personal and has plenty of ways to subsidise industries and prevent too much innovation from rocking the boat.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#125

Post by allendoerfer » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #86

ed_balls wrote: post #52

Good article, but the model is too simple. UK used to produce more cars than Germany, but it's the opposite now. Why? They haven't shared the same currency. German cars were better. > And it means those same workers in Spain are less equipped to compete for Manufacturing jobs — because Elon Musk has to pay them in German Euros instead of cheap Spanish Peseta. If you’ve got to pay everyone in German Euros, you might a…

If by productive means lying about car emissions to cheat authorities, yeah, Wolkswagen and Audi and whatever are really efficient cars made by really productive german workers. Maybe we could move this conversation to adult zone and non-cartoonist levels beyond "spanish cheap drunk workers living in the beach" and "german saint teetotalers workers"? Thinking that a spanish engineer is less educated than a german eng…

Productivity can be measured for example by GDP per hours worked, and Germany's productivy is very clearly above Spain's.

These are facts, which do not demean Spanish engineers, so no need to be defensive here. You are just taking one incident and using it to brush over economic facts.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#126

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #110

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Aldi in Amsterdam is a damn depressing store. Low ceilings, flickering lights, no organization or ambiance, and angry looking workers. Miles from the Trader Joe's in California

Aldi is not the same everywhere. The company split into two in 1960 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi ), and standards differ between the two. Aldi Süd has a much more pleasant store environment, in my experience. Aldi Nord is the variant present in the Netherlands. >Internationally, Aldi Nord operates in Denmark, France, the Benelux countries, Portugal, Spain and Poland, while Aldi Süd operates in Ireland, Great…

Even between Aldi Sued you have massive differences. Hofer (Aldi Sued) in Austria for instance is nothing like the German version.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#127

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

thenaturalist wrote: post #96

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Germany's manufacturing supremacy can't last forever with lower cost countries catching up fast. UK realized earlier it can't be competitive in manufacturing anymore. Knowledge work is the future in the West, not volume manufacturing.

The number of "Hidden Champions" (SMEs most often in manufacturing of high tech machinery & components which are world leaders by market share in their respective niche) in Germany speaks to the contrary. Same situation in Japan.

Indeed, I myself worked for one such niche high tech machinery German company. The problem is, due to the thin margins in these hardware gigs, the salaries are piss poor compared to the skills needed (M.Sc. and up) as even making iOS Apps paid better. Only the execs and the couple of grey beards who were with the company since its inception were well paid, everyone else not so much.

That's the reason youngsters aren't gravitating towards these gigs anymore and prefer to be web devs instead. The margins are higher and the entry bar lower.

I'm not saying they'll go bust tomorrow, not at all, I'm just saying they don't have an easy future ahead, due to low margins and unattractive career paths for youngsters, especially once their patents expire and China will be able to make the same stuff at half price. That's why the UK's decision to focus on services/consulting is a better long term bet IMHO.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#128

Post by paganel » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #66

nothis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economics in a nutshell: "There must be a single number that explains all of this!" It can't possibly be that Germany actually built its exports based on quality. That can't be replicated by tweaking some tax laws.

A few years back I worked for a large engineering services company (that nobody has ever heard of) and one of the senior managers from Germany described the quality of Mercedes-Benz cars as a "national disgrace" - he was genuinely upset about it.

For what it’s worth early 2000s Mercedes Benz models are not known for their reliability, and some of them were pretty prone to rust. Of course, Mercedes models built until the early-to-mid 1990s are a whole different thing.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#129

Post by idclip » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

bilekas wrote: post #63

idclip wrote: post #58

Theres a reason the Politics is becoming extreme, the largest economy is simply neglecting its citizens and simply saving a lot. Edit: not trying to troll. Many are thankful, but many are worried aswell. I/we dont consider it difficult to understand. Work hard, save, dont go to wars, its a simple equation, but its not all rosey, and things arent perfect. Many claim this prosperity to be illusory, and fear a harsh cri…

Imagine a government who could be financially prudent.. Sorry but this is not why 'Politics is becoming extreme'. The same way that not every citizen pays much attention to national debt until their on the hook for the bailout. Less drama is better. Strong and steady economy and forward planning. I would take that over : "Hey lets just spend money we don't have, we'll tax is later or inflation or screw it, worst case…

Are you here actually struggeling to find a kita place for your kid, or seeing how refugees just get dumped into ghettos ?

Because if you arent ... well then.

There’s honestly something very fundamentally wrong. And its very irresponsible and honestly nigh defamatory by trying to blame the larger mood on “posts such as mine”, hell im not even a conservatist, actually a moderate leftist that thinks those cries for attention ought to br heard and adressed. Posts like mine arent making the AFD the third strongest party, theyre riding the anger, rather. I will honestly not make statements about you, because im not here to inflame things, but do consider your finger pointing in this case, its unsavory, even if im off base and you know better, there’s a better way to put it.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#130

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #119

Interesting that the labor culture in Germany relative to the rest of the EU is not mentioned at all. Germany is one of the strongest nations to be an industrial worker and has various laws that are pretty unique to the nation, such as co-determination, I believe this has acted as a defense vs. outsourcing (and when they do outsource, they go to high cost places such as the US) and has kept it's manufacturing base st…

There is strong pragmatic cooperation between manufacturers. You get free samples and if some parts don't meet specifications there is a shared effort from both supplier and consumer to fix the problem in the process instead of suing each other. Would be too expensive without real results anyway.

Hours worked are pretty low compared to other European states even if you factor in a large part time component. I don't think increasing hours would increase productivity anymore.

There is also a darker side of course with a lot of minimum wage jobs or people working long hours while still being dependent on the state. Even for employees of the same company the income can be quite unequal. Compare development or engineering with production or logistics for example.