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Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

theguardian.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#81

Post by mirimir »

joe_the_user wrote: post #75
mirimir wrote: post #66

OK, so I'm just a random anonymous coward. And arguably obsessed with my hobby. But I'm puzzled that Bezos would be corresponding with MBS on the same device that he uses for potentially embarrassing personal stuff. Isn't that just a totally obvious OPSEC fail? Edit: But that's what he did, isn't it? And how could that be considered safe?

I think this a good question. The problem is that even the head of a ginormous company with a strong connection to computer security generally (through AWS) is going to take actions based on convenience rather than OPSEC discipline. I think it's natural for any given human to chat with all one's friend on the same level, with the same device and so-forth. A given individual can train themselves to have hard walls in…

I guess. But even before the Khashoggi assassination, MBS was arguably an obvious threat. I can't imagine considering him a "friend".

I mean, I'd be gobsmacked if he mixed personal and business on the same devices. That could be disastrous, not just embarrassing. So a third device category doesn't seem unworkable.

Edit: Also, wouldn't someone like Bezos have security advisers? And how could they have failed to warn him?

One could make a similar argument about MBS, of course.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#82

Post by davidw »

tw04 wrote: post #69
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post, so it wouldn’t be a favor for Trump. It would be consistent with his own motivations for murdering Khashoggi.

Great theory, except for the fact David Pecker was directly involved and more or less admitted it was a favor for Trump which he had been doing for decades.

David Pecker was, IIRC, the guy who also directed the 'catch and kill' with Stormy Daniels just before the 2016 election.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-trumps-fixers-silenced-sto...

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#83

Post by chance_state »

hloiuweri wrote: post #63

One thing which this article doesn't address at all, is what is the beef between MBS and Bezos? Why would the Saudi prince leak this data? How did Amazon upset him?

Perhaps as a favor to Trump who constantly whines about WaPo and Bezos?

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#84

Post by lawnchair_larry »

tw04 wrote: post #69
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post, so it wouldn’t be a favor for Trump. It would be consistent with his own motivations for murdering Khashoggi.

Great theory, except for the fact David Pecker was directly involved and more or less admitted it was a favor for Trump which he had been doing for decades.

What weight does that hold when MBS actually killed the WaPo journalist? The proof is right in front of us.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#85

Post by joe_the_user »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #17
Apocryphon wrote: post #7

So MBS or someone in Saudi intelligence is somehow behind the leak of the photos to the National Enquirer, and the subsequent divorce of the Bezos?

I guess Khashoggi must have really annoyed MBS. This has now cost the Saudis at least ten times as much goodwill as all anti-Saudi editorials in the Post and everywhere else together. That, or it was a favour to MBS American friends. The other people involved (David Pecker et al) and MBS do share a few friends in the White House, who also seem obsessed with the Washington Post and Bezos himself.

Saudi Arabia has a lot of exiles and so far as I know, it's not murdering everyone who criticizes them.

Khashoggi is was not simply a journalist but a member of an influential family with Saudi Arabia [1]. MBS has dealt quite brutally with a variety of his internal opponents without Saudi Arabia. Murdering Khashoggi was something of a statement that MBS wouldn't let his direct opponents escape to other countries to oppose him.

To be clear, the murder was a horrific act by a brutal theocratic regime, I'm not noting these factor to condone it in any way but merely to give background.

[1] For example, this Khashoggi was a relative of Adnan Khashoggi, once know as the world's largest arms dealer.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#86

Post by lawnchair_larry »

p0rkbelly wrote: post #46
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #24

This sounded plausible until I read the first sentence. Why would MBS be the one executing the attack, and using his personal account to do it?

The Saudi Royal Family simply do not care and walk around with impunity. They thumb their nose at the law and the world order and think they deserve to do whatever they want. This is exactly the same as the Khagoshi execution where overwhelming evidence and implication, but, play naive and put on a big sham investigation. Just how when Russian agents poisoned the Skripals and said they were their to view a church ste…

This does seem the most likely, as hard as it is to believe. I guess when you have hierarchies based on blood rather than competency, this is what you end up with.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#87

Post by rapsey »

jessriedel wrote: post #74
kshacker wrote: post #56

Whatsapp allows desktop clients. I use it too. It is technically possible for someone to hijack this desktop client and do this without MBS's involvement, as long as MBS authorized that desktop. I think you need proximity, but you can have a computer near the prince, and that computer being remotely controlled by someone sitting far away. Not saying this happened ... but there are many ways to blame it on prince and…

I thought the Whatsapp desktop client was just a glorified remote control for the phone, and could not actually function as a standalone client by itself?

Going through a remote control or to your phone directly makes no difference. So the remote control is an additional point of failure.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#89

Post by dwd »

chance_state wrote: post #83
hloiuweri wrote: post #63

One thing which this article doesn't address at all, is what is the beef between MBS and Bezos? Why would the Saudi prince leak this data? How did Amazon upset him?

Perhaps as a favor to Trump who constantly whines about WaPo and Bezos?

I think at the very least they would have bet on the WH looking the other way while they conducted an attack on a prominent US citizen. At worst it could be another "favour" attached to military procurement.

Re: Jeff Bezos's phone 'hacked by Saudi crown prince'

#90

Post by joe_the_user »

mirimir wrote: post #81
joe_the_user wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this a good question. The problem is that even the head of a ginormous company with a strong connection to computer security generally (through AWS) is going to take actions based on convenience rather than OPSEC discipline. I think it's natural for any given human to chat with all one's friend on the same level, with the same device and so-forth. A given individual can train themselves to have hard walls in…

I guess. But even before the Khashoggi assassination, MBS was arguably an obvious threat. I can't imagine considering him a "friend". I mean, I'd be gobsmacked if he mixed personal and business on the same devices. That could be disastrous, not just embarrassing. So a third device category doesn't seem unworkable. Edit: Also, wouldn't someone like Bezos have security advisers? And how could they have failed to warn h…

This reminds me of the way that Barrack Obama tried to keep his personal cellphone once he became president. Having a personal relationship with the wealthy and powerful is a unique thing since these are the ultimate decision makers. I would guess that Bezos or anyone like him chats frequently with very powerful people and that this is factor in him maintaining his own power and influence. And mobile devices would seem to magnify that ability of the very topmost people to connect directly with each other - ie, this was all done by secretaries and through protocol but that's slower and can let one big boss instantly sway another.

Of MBS doing his own spying and hacking is another way topmost people are becoming "do it yourself-ers".

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