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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#511

Post by Despegar »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #504
Despegar wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have never hidden how iCloud backups or anything else related to iOS security works. This support document spells out clearly what data is end-to-end encrypted [1]. No one was actually misled into thinking all iCloud data was E2E. For one, most of Apple's customers don't know or care about the technical architecture of their products and services. The people who do would have known better when you can go to iclo…

The page you've linked to has a table filled entirely with the word Yes , apart from iCloud.com which has a note and Mail which has a note. The first entry in the table is: Backup Yes Yes At a glance this looks, to me, as though iCloud backups are encrypted. What am I missing?

If you scroll down another line you'll see another section titled: End-to-end encrypted data

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#512

Post by dang »

_bxg1 wrote: post #206

> aboyt how much Apple cares about users No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. Apple, because of its privacy-marketing, is incentivized to be the privacy player in the market. But only so far as consumers keep them honest about it. They got away with this loophole because it stayed under the radar; if it gets enough attention and enough customers show that it matters to them, it could change. On…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22108429.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#513

Post by dang »

GeekyBear wrote: post #207

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22108429.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#514

Post by _bxg1 »

piqued wrote: post #491
_bxg1 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And underpinning all of that was the unfortunate fact that this truly innovative and lively new area of development at Microsoft found itself happening at the tail end of Ballmer's tenure. There was this spark of energy around Zune, and then Kin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Kin ), and then Windows Phone that was just completely orthogonal to the stagnant money-printing strategy that Microsoft followed be…

Oh man, I had the second gen Zune. It really was so good. To this day I still think about that little touch/d-pad, and wish something similar had caught on with more devices...

It's very much like the current Apple TV remote. Unfortunately, the latter:

- Doesn't have the hard directional buttons underneath

- Isn't really helpful because you aren't scrolling through hundreds of items like you do in a music library

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#515

Post by catalogia »

Despegar wrote: post #511
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The page you've linked to has a table filled entirely with the word Yes , apart from iCloud.com which has a note and Mail which has a note. The first entry in the table is: Backup Yes Yes At a glance this looks, to me, as though iCloud backups are encrypted. What am I missing?

If you scroll down another line you'll see another section titled: End-to-end encrypted data

Technically telling the truth below the fold or in the fine print, while misleading consumers who only give the literature a glance. This is very typical behavior from a corporation, it shouldn't surprise us. Except that Apple's marketing team has managed to dupe a huge number of consumers into believing Apple 'thinks different.'

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#516

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

matwood wrote: post #381
natch wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has bought into that meme I will admit this feels like a pretty huge betrayal by Apple. So, yes, I think if Apple sticks with this, their whole privacy stance is going in the toilet now. And a very dirty toilet it is. Beyond just the facts of not protecting data, there is also the deception. This is some really very, very, nasty stuff for Apple's brand and the reputation of every person who works at Ap…

There is a plausible argument that Apple needed to give a little in order to avoid the creation of laws against any encryption. And/Or also avoid laws that required a backdoor to everything. I know I'm going to be called a fanboy or too generous to Apple, but given that the government has used every opportunity to call out Apple for not helping (when they have helped where they could) there is a line here that Apple…

Sadly, I think you are absolutely correct. Lindsay said outright that either tech companies figure it out, or senate will do the figuring for them.

I am not sure Apple made the right move, but.. average person does not seem to care and/or understand the ikplications. Now.. Apple could make them care. They are big enough to make waves and I am not certain goverment could deal with bad PR come election time.

edit: corrected grammar

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#517

Post by president »

scarface74 wrote: post #500
president wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The questions you are posing make it clear that you don't understand the issue at hand, much less the broader context behind these data laws. Companies have invested much more $$$ and resources for much less reward. Also, everything is legal as long as your lawyers sign off.

I perfectly understand how public/private key encryption works. Can you find any citations to support your specific claims that Apple is sending user’s private keys from their devices and giving those keys to China?

Tell me how you think public/private keys helps Apple from skirting Chinese law that stipulates that they must provide access to user data.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#518

Post by president »

scarface74 wrote: post #501
president wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. How the technology works is irrelevant when the end result is that the government wants the data. If your boss asks you to build a machine that produces a widget, does he really care what your code looks like? Probably not. In the same vein, Apple can figure out whatever solution they want, whether it involves conventional use of encryption keys or not, to provide a system where the Chinese government can get acc…

Do you have any proof? Any citations from security experts?

It doesn't take Bruce Schneier to understand how laws work.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#519

Post by hu3 »

Despegar wrote: post #406
natch wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say makes sense. Still, if that’s the case, then when they decided not to go down the user-is-in-full-and-absolute-control path for encryption of iCloud backups, they should have publicized it loudly and with extreme clarity on what exactly was happening and where the lines were. So that users could make informed choices.

They have never hidden how iCloud backups or anything else related to iOS security works. This support document spells out clearly what data is end-to-end encrypted [1]. No one was actually misled into thinking all iCloud data was E2E. For one, most of Apple's customers don't know or care about the technical architecture of their products and services. The people who do would have known better when you can go to iclo…

That link says:

Backup Encryption In Transit: Yes

Backup Encryption On Server: Yes

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#520

Post by diebeforei485 »

I don't think Apple ever claimed iCloud backups are end-to-end encrypted (it is encrypted at rest, but not end-to-end).

But I can see how many users would assume that, given Apple's dishonest/brash marketing about how "what happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone".

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