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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#371
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They botched the original Windows Phone through a failure of management This. I had some Windows Phones besides my iPhones, because I liked very much what they were doing. Windows Phone 7, despite being technically weak (it was based on Windows CE), had an awesome UI. Nokia had some really affordable phones that were really well-built for the price and Windows Phone was getting traction. Quite a few friends/colleague…

And underpinning all of that was the unfortunate fact that this truly innovative and lively new area of development at Microsoft found itself happening at the tail end of Ballmer's tenure. There was this spark of energy around Zune, and then Kin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Kin ), and then Windows Phone that was just completely orthogonal to the stagnant money-printing strategy that Microsoft followed be…

I completely agree. In an environment where everyone was just copying the iPhone UI, some of the design ideas that were coming out of Microsoft were really refreshing and exciting. There was really nothing else like it (and nothing like it ever since).

I would love to see how Windows Phone would’ve matured.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#372

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

> Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. In this instance, Apple decided to continue to not encrypt iCloud backups because, according to one source, > […] the company did not want to risk being attacked by public officials for protecting criminals, sued for moving previously…

It is mere marketing, if it is meant to convince consumers of one thing while in practice it's a different thing. The reasons why are irrelevant. Apple would prefer everyone just assumed iCloud backups were encrypted, and tries to keep quiet about it.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#373

Easy fix: back up your iPhone locally on your computer instead of using iCloud: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203977#computer The ambiguous position on true end-to-end encryption shows once again that Apple is in for the marketing (both to consumers—predatory and dangerous, and to engineering talent—dishonest). Same hypocrisy as on the China issue. Not that there is an easy solution when you are one of the bigges…

Makes me wonder why they only mention iCloud specifically, does that imply our local OS is already pwnd?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#374

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

What is this backup encrypted with? If I lose my phone, what do I need to restore it to a new phone?

You choose the password. Most of Apple's encryption nowadays uses AES (since they have good hardware support for it), so it is probably that.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#375

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

This used to work great and is still my preferred method of back up, however for at least the past year it has been extremely unreliable. I have to manually load iTunes on my computer and initiate a back up from there because it never happens automatically anymore. And there’s no way to manually start the Wi-Fi backup from my iPhone anymore (that was removed in iOS 13). Maybe it’s more reliable if you use a Mac instead of a PC, but at this point I get a full backup maybe once a month, and often end up plugging in via USB cable in order to even get that.

(to clarify, my desktop PC is always turned on and connected to the network, so most of the other complaints in this thread about it not working with low battery laptops or whatever don’t apply in my scenario. Even in my ideal-case scenario it still barely works)

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a corporation is a person.

The inconsistency in that is telling. Corporations demand the rights of persons, yet do not tend to shoulder the responsibilities that come with it [0]. Given how gigantic they are, the consequences are way too costly for the society. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/02/if-corp...

I think the GP was being sarcastic

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#377
I'm so done with Apple, but more generally, with cell-phones. I was very excited to have Signal available back in 2015, but when I learned about cellular baseband processors and DMA attacks, I realized the whole smartphone stack is insecure. We can't audit anything in our phones, down to the cellular chip.

Even if our phones were 100% trustworthy, they are triangulated by cell towers thousands of times per day. Location tracking can only be avoided by:

1: Not owning a phone.

2: Powering off your device and keeping in a Faraday cage while not using.

Tempting to own a cute little purse that blocks phone signals, but do I really need a cell-phone on my body, 24/7?

If I evaluate the overall pros & cons of my cellphone, it has been overwhelmingly negative. I've had a phone since August 2014, when I went to college. Before that, I would text with my parents' phones.

Here are the top negative things that have happened due to using a phone:

1. Miscommunication, isolation, social anxiety due to social media and texting. Talking in person is so much better. And what about the hours and hours of snapchatting, so pointless and sad looking back.

2. False sense of security, thinking you can know what's going on, help people, intervene when necessary (friend sexual assault stuff at parties). What about when their phone dies? It made me wish we had landlines, or that I had been there. If I didn't have a cell phone, I don't think I would've left the party. I would've stayed and kept watch.

3. Poor posture, lack of sleep, constant exposure to blue light (who knows if the light is really bad), etc.

4. Missed connections by having my head in my phone all the time in public.

5. The US government has a total map of my life since August 2014, even though I have sent thousands of encrypted messages and hundreds of encrypted phone calls.

6. Less time available each day. I have spent typically 1-3 hours per day on my phone since I got one, about 1,980 days ago. This amounts to probably 4,000 to 6,000 hours, or about 170 to 250 days. In other words, about 1/8th of my life since 2014 has been dedicated to bullshit technology.

Here are some positives:

1. I have lots of photos that would otherwise have required a camera. But I have dozens of film cameras and a few digital ones, and there's no reason to shoot photos on such a tiny format. Good luck printing cell-photos beyond 5x7 or even 8x10.

2. I occasionally talk to family. This could be accomplished with a landline.

Maybe I've missed some things, and maybe I'm being pessimistic, but the reality is that I've lost lots of sleep and experienced more problems with interpersonal relationships as a result of having a phone. It's likely that not owning a phone would expose me to a new class of problems, but I've decided to get rid of my phone.

I'm in the process of switching accounts and removing 2FA, so I don't need cell service. Once I get there, I'm planning to write a little blog post about it. After having a baby, it's become clear that a phone is sucking my life away, and I need to be present with my family. Hope to have this all dealt with in the next week or two.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#378

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

> there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud.

Just plug your phone, click "Backup up". You don't even have to open iTunes anymore, just open "Finder" window. Can't be easier than that.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#379
post #350
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No company cares about anything. A company is not a person. You're splitting hairs over the definition of 'cares'. I think we all understand what that word means in this context.

> I think we all understand what that word means in this context. No, we don't, and that's exactly the point. We tend to anthropomorphize companies. "Good Guy Google" has become "Evil Google". "Micro$oft" has become "Altruistic, OSS Microsoft". Apple has become "Defender Of Privacy". But all of these are illusions created by marketing departments; there is no real sentiment behind any of them that can be used to pred…

Persons [edit: I don’t mean in the legal sense] they are not, but do you think it is reasonable to model companies as non-person _agents_? (In the sense of “thing which has goals/preferences, (and beliefs?) and acts so as to further those goals/preferences”.)

If it is useful to model such organizations as non-person agents, then while they of course would not “care”, in the sense of emotions, about things, it would be coherent to say that such an organization e.g. “has protecting privacy as a goal”.

Err, I guess I’m eliding the distinction between “being useful to model as an agent” and “being an agent”, which may be a mistake. I suppose what I should say is “if it is useful to model as an agent, it is useful to treat as coherent the claim that it has goals of e.g. privacy stuff.” .

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#380
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about that. Face and fingers are typically authentication mechanisms. They can grant access to a key, but they cannot themselves be the key. The thing doing the authentication can be your local device, or a cloud-device. That thing must necessarily store a validator for your face/fingerprints which it can use to decide your submitted capture is “close enough” to consider a match, after which it grants ac…

> They can grant access to a key, but they cannot themselves be the key. My assumption is that device recovery is such a special case, that it can use very different algorithms than those used in phones today, they could be very computationally expensive and turn fingerprints into usable keys. And of course there is no need for anyone to store them or being able to match them individually or even just tie to an ident…

There are two things that make this problem “hard” if not “intractable”.

Encryption keys are precise integer values (or can be represented as such) and they gain a large part of their security from two facts; a key that is wrong by even one bit will appear totally wrong / disclose zero information, and two, the key space is unfathomably large.

To turn a fingerprint directly into an encryption key would require first; some sort of mapping between the analog representation of the finger/face (which could be two or 3 dimensional) into a digital value, and second; for that value to be absolutely repeatable over time.

The biggest problem is that of course neither your face, nor your fingerprints, are absolutely unchanging over time.

So the first thing you would somehow need to accomplish is a way to map the biometric scan to a repeatable precise integer value. Such a mapping would require, by definition, a loss of precision.

How much precision? Well, it’s directly a result of how resilient you want the algorithm to be in the face of things like scanning error, micro-abrasions on the finger, body fat percentage, the temperature of your hand, swelling, hair growth, etc...

The less precise you make it, the more different fingers (or different scans of the same finger) must necessarily resolve to the same key.

This is the same thing as saying that we are reducing the key-space.

Once you have reduced the precision of the mapping from a biometric scan into a key that will reliably generate the same key over time, you have, by definition, reduced the key space to the point where the encryption is fundamentally unsound.

The only exception to this would be perhaps using DNA sequences, but even then, I believe DNA is not actually perfectly unchanging over time, and is also not at all random [1]. But assuming you could probably handle the minute coding changes that do occur, and reliably scan the same part of the genome, I think you could end up with enough entropy to generate a secure key. Assuming you are willing to precisely sequence a chunk of DNA in order to generate your key. This is rapidly becoming feasible, if not somewhat dystopian and entirely impractical.

But you still have the fundamental problem that the key is not being generated as a uniformly random value in the key space. This happens to be extremely important to the security of encryption algorithms. You wouldn’t want, for example, a close relative to be able to cut your entropy from 512-bits down to 64-bits and into the realm of brute force.

In short, biometrics will remain an authentication method rather than a direct encryption method, likely indefinitely.

[1] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10223669/

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