How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy • Hacker News Board

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#161

Post by hcnews » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #154

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original owners keep them for 5 years max. Nothing has to last longer than that.

Why is this downmodded? It's true, at least in America: the people who buy these cars new don't care if they still work 10 years later, because they don't keep them that long. The people who buy cars intending to keep them a long time don't buy expensive luxury cars here.

Couple of reasons I can think of:

1. Most people want cars to run 10+ years, even in America (I live in California). Capital, environmental implications, not many new features etc. are valid reasons.

2. Higher quality cars are better to ride in 5 years than lesser quality cars. I would rather drive first 5 years of a car than the only 5 years of a car.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#162

Post by hogFeast » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

novaRom wrote: post #49

Germany has also very low net income inequality.

It has the highest wealth inequality in Europe though (iirc, it is as high or higher than the US). In absolute terms, Germany's average net financial wealth per capita is slightly less than Greece...and in Germany, they have a substantial number of billionaires (usually very old money that got rich through govt aid/subsidised loans...or, unf, something much worse) which they don't in Greece.

Btw, the IMF actually produced a special report on inequality in Germany. It is a very serious problem and probably more serious than in the US (a trade surplus is just an excess of savings over investment: Germany industrialised through subsidised loans to politically connected companies, this meant very low interest rates...they are basically China, btw China copied Japan's model and Japan copied Germany...insolvent banks, very high inefficient saving rates, very low wealth, very weak savings system, low wages, very concentrated/vulnerable economically, non-functioning capital markets...it goes on and on).

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#163

Post by mrtksn » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #133

pergadad wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very simplistic view and doesn't at all cover the whole picture. The union benefits all countries in varying ways (eg without the union Italian and Spanish and French banks would long have gone bankrupt). At the same time it also has negative effects. But you have the same issue internally inside any larger country.

> * without the union Italian and Spanish and French banks would long have gone bankrupt* If you think sick institutions should die, that's not a benefit.

Institutions don’t die only because they are sick, sometimes certain things need to have certain scale or environment to function.

The silicon valley tech giants wouldn’t have enjoyed the same success if the US was not what it is.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#164

Post by Luc » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #145

Luc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are misrepresenting the original (now unviewable) post. That is disgraceful Uhm, those are literal quotes from the text. They're not even dog whistles, they're full on air raid sirens. Anyway, I'm done with this thread, have a nice day.

Again, you are misrepresenting. I am a strong believer in free speech. I don't know if it was you that flagged the post but I would much prefer to see a counter argument and rebuttal from you. Instead we get a casual and patronizing comment. Hacker News is usually great for reasoned argument and debate. It's sad to see this sort of glib fly by behaviour

I'm rolling my eyes. That is all the rebuttal this needs.

Then people can go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement if they really wish to.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#165

Post by skybrian » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #134

ergothus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a word about the fact that Germany simply produces desirable products? I dont think that's relevant though. Desirable products mean more countries buy your product, means the value of your currency changes, means your products are effectively "more expensive". Sharing a currency with other countries dilutes that effect, just like any prosperous region within a country sharing a currency with poorer regions. I'm…

Nope, tradable goods don't just become "more expensive" because of currency shifts. The prices of tradables are set in a global market and tied together by cross-trading (arbitrage) considerations. What happens when supplying a desirable product is that the industry seeks to expand and that might increase costs overall. The Dutch Disease is an extreme version of this, in which having a single dominating industry sect…

It sounds like you might be talking about commodities, but that's not every market. For goods manufactured and largely consumed in one country, currency shifts do quite mechanically make foreign prices cheaper or more expensive, assuming they are still sold for the same price domestically.

(Though, the price might not change right away depending on long-term contracts and whether the manufacturer decides to take profits or accept a lower profit margin.)

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#166

Post by magduf » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #102

owenversteeg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Aldi is "third world"? What on earth? I personally shop in Lidl, not Aldi, but Lidl is often compared to Aldi, about as popular and occupies the same price segment. And I eat like a king from there! Excellent protected origin cheeses, meats, wines, organic products... Half the time I leave the Lidl I go with a shopping cart that would make an American foodie drool. My most recent purchase there included Manchego…

Look, I like I lot of things about Germany, but the supermarkets here are a joke. There's more product variety in a single Whole Foods in America than there is in the entire combined inventory of all German supermarkets. Most processed foods (ready meals, frozen pizzas, etc) are also extremely low quality.

>Look, I like I lot of things about Germany, but the supermarkets here are a joke. There's more product variety in a single Whole Foods in America than there is in the entire combined inventory of all German supermarkets.

You've got to be kidding. German supermarkets are just small, because they don't have the cheap real-estate that suburban stores in the USA have, but the food is far higher-quality than in mainstream US stores. Comparing to Whole Foods is just idiotic; that's like comparing German cars to American cars and picking whatever passes for an economy car in Germany, and comparing that to the Tesla model S. Only a very, very tiny percentage of the American public shops at Whole Foods, or can even afford it. Most places don't even have them available.

>Most processed foods (ready meals, frozen pizzas, etc) are also extremely low quality.

Compared to what? Not stuff in American supermarkets.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#167

Post by kensai » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

mambojumbo wrote: post #124

zwieback wrote: post #31

Not a word about the fact that Germany simply produces desirable products? Somehow that has to factor in. Financial policy and the education system favors a conservative manufacturing sector that incrementally improves upon what Germany has done for decades. While I got my ME degree in Germany my dad, who is a solid state physicist, spent all his energy trying to accelerate the development of a German electronics sec…

German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add new leds and interior eye candy but that is not progress. Imo german cars are low quality and lack diversity, and same goes for most machinery made in that country. US, Japanese, South Korean or other EU made products can be of similar or higher quality. Germany…

No pun intended, dude, but I think you speak mambo jumbo... :D

"German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation."

Germany just surpassed again South Korea as the most innovative country. News are just three days old. Where do you base your own assessment? Did your BMW break down?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-b...

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#168

Post by jgreen10 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

moggi wrote: post #5

Interesting choice to use 1993 as the start for the comparison of Germany's trade surplus: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade

The numbers in the article are shaky.

For instance, the Netherlands had a trade surplus of $76 billion in 2017, but shows up as having a trade deficit.

France does not appear in the list of Germany's export partners, but it's actually number 2.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#169

Post by durnygbur » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #144

wolfgke wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indeed, expats are lured here thinking Germany is the Promised Land Hardly any German person would claim to (or even lure) expats that Germany is the Promised land. The only reason I can think of any expat thinking about Germany as the Promised Land is self-delusion.

> The only reason I can think of any expat thinking about Germany as the Promised Land is self-delusion. It happens a lot in Romania and I suspect in other Eastern-European countries too.

I noticed this sentiment among Romanians and I hypothesize that it's related to the fact their aristocracy (ie. rich and affluent) used to be predominantly German speaking and of German origin. In many other post-Communist countries Germany is perceived much more critically.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#170

Post by fragmede » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #160

bpizzi wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eg without the union Italian and Spanish and French banks would long have gone bankrupt Not french banks. At least from IMF representatives pov. Source: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2009/wp09201.pdf Excerpt: "French banks were not immune but proved relatively resilient to the global financial crisis reflecting their business and supervision features".

And not Spanish banks. It was some spanish "cajas", not banks. Can seem similar, but falls in a different category.

A quick Google suggests 'cajas' is closer to a credit union, though I'd love to hear more about the difference between a 'cajas' and a bank and the cultural expectations for both. (I would have been surprised if that happened to a US credit union.)