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A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

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Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#201
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death of any loved one is hard on any family, but IMO a quick, relatively painless, death is definately easier. My mother-in-law died from cancer a few years ago, and after many months of pain and constantly in and out of hospitals, when she was finally lying on her deathbed unconcious as her body began to give up, my wife was tasked with making the decision of whether doctors would administer a lethal morphine d…

Very sad to read that. Yet, by the way, why do they always use lethal doses of morphine for euthanasia? I.e. I would strongly prefer a lethal dose of 5-MeO-DMT (which feels like spiritual ascension and dissolution in pure light, union with the universe and non-duality, and then you just forget to breathe in case of a lethal dose) for myself.

> Yet, by the way, why do they always use lethal doses of morphine for euthanasia?

Deniability.

Euthanasia is still illegal in most of the world (and yet is the moral thing to do at times). To avoid tangling with the long arm of the law, the medical staff overseeing a terminal patient will hint at what a deadly dosage would be, and leave the dosage control with a family member. So what if the coroner finds morphine - it's supposed to be there. 5-MeO-DMT (or any other non-medical compound), is far less innocuous, and could potentially open a legal can of worms for everyone involved.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we don't really know what happens after we die. And a little bit of symbolism is a nice touch that also helps those left behind.

We kinda know that memory lies in the brain and that the brain gets rotten after you die. Symbolism is nice but it can’t replace actually meaningful moments.

Literally just semantics and opinion. What's the difference between symbolism and meaningful moments for some?

And yeah, everyone is aware you don't remember anything when you die. When I die, I want to die in a way that impacts those left behind, because like you said, I won't remember it but they will.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My condolences. If I can just add two cents through - my father spent the last few months of his life dying from cancer, with the final week being nothing but a morphine-induced coma, with his entire body slowly shutting down, him only waking up every now and then to beg for some water(Which he couldn't drink anyway). It was the most horrendous experience I can imagine anyone going through, both for himself and for u…

From what I've heard, it's relatively common in hospice care for people to ask to be "helped along" on their way out. All it takes is a little Xanax on top of a lot of morphine; and honestly it sounds like a pretty peaceful way to speed up the inevitable.

Death is evil. It must be eradicated, like other nasty diseases. https://www.kurzweilai.net/death-is-an-outrage

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. My grandfather’s slow painful leukimia death found me relief when he actially passed. I was relieved that he was no longer suffering, it was an experience that no human should go through..

Maybe there's nothing worse than suffering, but suffering is better than nothing. I would rather suffer an extra week than die.

The day before he died my father told a visitor "I just want to go".

I've no idea whether I'd feel like that or not, but consider that your guess as to how you'd feel is quite possibly only a guess.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#205

Condolences to his family and friends, but for an entertainer, I can think of no better thing that you remember last in the world, and that is to be entertaining people and to be in the middle of your craft when the reaper taps you on the shoulder. Somehow, me collapsing on my keyboard mid code doesn't seem all that great way to go. I will have to get another passion that I am mid stream in and enjoying life to the m…

A famous example from 80 years ago:

> Vierne suffered either a stroke or a heart attack (eyewitness reports differ) while giving his 1,750th organ recital at Notre-Dame de Paris on the evening of 2 June 1937. He had completed the main concert, which members of the audience said showed him at his full powers ("as well as he has ever played"). Directly after he had finished playing his "Stele pour un enfant défunt" from his 'Triptyque' Op 58, the closing section was to be two improvisations on submitted themes. He read the first theme in Braille, then selected the stops he would use for the improvisation. He suddenly pitched forward, and fell off the bench as his foot hit the low "E" pedal of the organ. He lost consciousness as the single note echoed throughout the church. He had thus fulfilled his oft-stated lifelong dream — to die at the console of the great organ of Notre-Dame. Maurice Duruflé, another major French organist and composer, was at his side at the time of his death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Vierne

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth: I lived through just such a thing. It was a wonderful experience - head went light, everything suddenly breezy and far away, too fluffy to cogitate on anything. If my sister hadn’t been there I would have for sure passed, because I certainly wasn’t calling for help. I imagined for a long time afterwards that that’s probably what heroin feels like, and why it’s so addictive. I was a little wrecked…

Wow, that is an amazing experience. Did it change your perspective on religion at all?

It did not. I was a secular humanist before and after, and drew no relation between that event and my beliefs.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#207
post #150
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife was a palliative care nurse. She has seen hundreds of patients in the late stages of their lives. She has always told me she wants to go well before she reaches that stage and has a do not resuscitate order. I would imagine many other nurses and doctors would feel the same way. You may want to expose yourself to people who only have "brief moments of lucidity" otherwise be careful what you wish for or you mig…

Oh! Look! Anecdotes from a country where you can get broke if you go the hospital! Surely it applies to people all over the world! You imagine and you assume. Please don't argue about ending other people life based on assumptions and imagination.

Okay, as a paramedic, who has lived in Australia and the UK as well as the US.

End of life quality of life is its own issue, regardless of who is or isn't paying.

Let me paint you a couple of examples and have you tell me about your desire to face any one of them rather than finding peace:

1) the lady with metastasized bone cancer who (thankfully) we were taking home so she could die there, as her family had set up a bed in a family owned home so she could watch the sunrise. She was a morphine drip for her pain. To be clear, most patients with cancer can be controlled by oral morphine at 200mg/day. She was receiving 120mg per HOUR. And still we had to drive the ambulance painfully (hah) slowly because every little bump in the road (not pothole, but bump) caused screams of pain from the back. Despite her being 45kg or so, we used six people to move her into the home (normally two would have done it) to make it as smooth a process as possible, and she was still incontinent from pain as a result). I do take some mild comfort in knowing she got to see two more sunrises out of hospital. But even as someone who has had multiple kidney stones (and large ones at that), I could not imagine enduring what she was.

You call it "living", it's not, I chose "enduring" for a reason.

2) A man who had Alzheimers with some lucidity. Maybe 10 minutes an hour. The other times he spent in terror, because he had a constant playback loop of about four separate WW2 scenarios where he was an infantryman in Europe. During those times he was entirely reliving the most terrifying experiences of his life, his eyes would be wide, his pulse would be 160+, he'd be shaking and unapproachable (because he _would_ attack you), pinned down by German troops in a French village. Or breaking his leg as he cut his parachute when he was stuck in a tree. Or when he was temporarily deafened by mortar and artillery fire landing near him, spraying him with mud and bricks and glass.

You're entitled to your own opinion as we all are. But it's certainly not a coincidence that _many_ people who have spent a good amount of time around end of life events want nothing less than to see it happen to them (or for their own loved ones to have to see it happen).

And all of the above, again, has nearly zero to do with "who is paying the bill".

And a seemingly subtle but very important distinction: it is not _ending_ someone's life to _not prolong_ it beyond nature. And trying to twist the parents remarks about "do not resuscitate" into "ending peoples lives" is a blatant reductionism that is neither merited nor fair. Apropos of anything else, a DNR is the written expression of the _patients_ wishes. Just as you want your own freedom.

We spend more in the last year (be it NHS, Medicare in Australia, or health insurance) of people's lives than we do in the last decade of their lives, and more in the last decade than we do on the rest of their life.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth: I lived through just such a thing. It was a wonderful experience - head went light, everything suddenly breezy and far away, too fluffy to cogitate on anything. If my sister hadn’t been there I would have for sure passed, because I certainly wasn’t calling for help. I imagined for a long time afterwards that that’s probably what heroin feels like, and why it’s so addictive. I was a little wrecked…

Wow, that is an amazing experience. Did it change your perspective on religion at all?

What does this have to do with religion?

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We kinda know that memory lies in the brain and that the brain gets rotten after you die. Symbolism is nice but it can’t replace actually meaningful moments.

This is sloppy philosphy. Symbolism is clearly defined, but "actual meaningful moments" is a culturally subjective term without actual meaning. Furthermore, symbols are largely how our species interprets and experiences reality. Symbols provide meaning. Without them, moments are mere streams of phenomenon.

Symbolism is as subjective as it gets, an act can be interpreted as heroic by some people while others might think it's stupid. Meaningful moments don't exclude symbolic ones, they extend them by including banal moments like having an ice cream with your kid and enjoying it.

Re: A singer apologized, closed his eyes, dropped his head and died onstage

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We kinda know that memory lies in the brain and that the brain gets rotten after you die. Symbolism is nice but it can’t replace actually meaningful moments.

This is sloppy philosphy. Symbolism is clearly defined, but "actual meaningful moments" is a culturally subjective term without actual meaning. Furthermore, symbols are largely how our species interprets and experiences reality. Symbols provide meaning. Without them, moments are mere streams of phenomenon.

On a side note, the use of Furthermore has been correlated with decreasing readability of texts https://elifesciences.org/articles/27725
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