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Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

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Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#41

Post by bryanlarsen »

jaaron wrote: post #18
mooism2 wrote: post #12

This is clearly legal, as Apple don't have a monopoly. But also clearly not in my interest as a putative Apple customer. (Alas, I fear I am not in Apple's target market.)

Clearly legal, because you're a lawyer? Don't be too surprised if this lands Apple in court eventually. Leveraging their OS to disrupt competitors in other business markets is the exact sort of behavior that got Microsoft in trouble with Netscape.

AFAIK, this behaviour is only illegal if you're deemed a monopoly. Certainly Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smart phones, but it could be argued that they have a monopoly on app store purchases, since I'm sure that they have a greater than 70% share (by dollars) of app store purchases.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#42

Post by jhancock »

zdw wrote: post #27
drp wrote: post #4

What if Apple started demanding 30% of all sales transacted on every device they produce? What makes an iPhone so different from a MacBook?

I'm tempted to call the 30% the AppleVAT at this point... What makes iOS purchases different are two things: 1. Apple has oversight of content being sold (helps avoid malicious software in many cases, and age appropriate content). 2. Ease of use - one password to buy stuff, not multiple accounts everywhere. That's what you get as a customer. As a developer, you don't have to deal with the payment processing and other…

Your 2 examples are no different than what PayPal does. Granted PayPal has few restrictions to what they allow you to buy/sell through them. However, there are restrictions and PayPal (as will most payment systems) does cut off malicious vendors. Our movie industry has managed to make movies "child friendly" through a rating system. And they did this without selling tickets through one payment processer.

Apple has little value add here and as their store grows, the long tail and new business models suffer due to there being only one store. AppleVAT is a good term for what they do. Their strategy is almost guaranteed to make the company less innovative.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#43

Post by bryanlarsen »

sammcd wrote: post #9
martincmartin wrote: post #5

How will this work for O'Reilly books I purchase in pdf format? How can Apple stop me from reading it without blocking all non-DRMed pdfs?

I'm pretty sure they are only interested in books purchased on the device. If you don't purchase it on the device they don't get a cut.

AFAICT, the article is saying that if there's a way to purchase content externally and move it onto the device, there must also be a way to purchase it internally with the AppleVAT.

So they're definitely targeting books purchased off device.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#45

Post by nika »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. But it strikes me as an unnatural state of affairs. This idea that I can make a computational device, then own the right for you to put material on that device , is technically correct -- if you think of the iPad as some huge proprietary version of a CD player. But if you think of it an extension of your brain -- as a prosthesis which helps you share commonly und…

Apple doesn't "own the right to put material on that device", as apple provides many mechanisms to put material on the device outside of apple's control. Here's some of them:

1. iTunes file sync lets you put arbitrary files in there. I put many pdfs that I bought from pragmatic programmers in iBooks. Apple doesn't get a cut. iTunes also lets you sync any file type with any app that can read it (And apple lets free reader apps of all types in the store, it just has a restriction on operating a store via the app.)

2. Apple has provided a mechanism and gone into great lenghts to educate developers on how to build web apps that live and run form the device. These applications can have local storage, have an icon just like all the other apps, and can be connected to the net or run independant of the net. You could write a porn app that lives on the device and, unless apple heard about your website, apple would never know.. and they can't stop you either.

Now consider this: The Amazon Kindle operates as if amazon owns the right to control what material you put on it, right? Apple is not allowed to sell kindle books. Kindle books are an arbitrary proprietary format...while Apples' bookstore uses the open standard epub mechanism.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#46

Post by greyman »

sammcd wrote: post #9
martincmartin wrote: post #5

How will this work for O'Reilly books I purchase in pdf format? How can Apple stop me from reading it without blocking all non-DRMed pdfs?

I'm pretty sure they are only interested in books purchased on the device. If you don't purchase it on the device they don't get a cut.

Let's hope so, but the article put it differently - if an app presents content bought elsewhere, there must be an option to buy that content also in-app. So if you are right, the article is wrong.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#47

Post by nika »

jaaron wrote: post #14

First off, if you trace the article to its source, you'll end up on a WSJ article that says something slightly different: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870477560457612... As far as we know, Apple has not directly set a deadline for Amazon. In fact, there's no knew information other than the date: meaning there's still a lot of questions about the subscription rates and the actual requirements Apple wil…

I think Amazon could resolve this really easily by doing a cross marketing deal with Apple.

But at least Apple is only taking %30. Amazon has completely excluded Apple from selling books via the iBookstore app on the kindle. In fact, you can't even read iBookstore books on the kindle because Amazon doesn't allow Apple to produce an app for the kindle.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#48

Post by brudgers »

tybris wrote: post #33
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. But it strikes me as an unnatural state of affairs. This idea that I can make a computational device, then own the right for you to put material on that device , is technically correct -- if you think of the iPad as some huge proprietary version of a CD player. But if you think of it an extension of your brain -- as a prosthesis which helps you share commonly und…

> Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. Right, because corporations never do anything illegal in any country. Microsoft has been fined hundreds of millions for including a browser with their OS (not even restricting other browsers). Something Apple and every other OS manufacturer does as well. The problem is, neither Microsoft, nor Apple cares about fines of that scale.

One does not need to go all the way to Redmond to find illegal activity, one can find it in Cupertino as well, e.g. Apple back dating stock options.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#49

Post by nika »

jpravetz wrote: post #23
zdw wrote: post #6

Thus why you should only buy ebooks where you get easily transferrable formats, like unencumbered PDF or ePub. I'm a big fan of O'Reilly's multi-format approach. This is the correct end-run around proprietary stores. Regarding this issue in particular, I don't see the problem with Amazon and others kicking their users out to Safari to do purchases, and thus as the purchase wouldn't happen "in app" it wouldn't be cove…

In support of unencumbered formats, think about how Apple became dominant. iPod/iTunes initial success + music labels insistence on DRM, lead to lack of content portability, lead to device lock-in, lead to iPod dominance, lead to music labels loosing power. This is different from Kindle, where they write a player for every platform. But is what you get if you sell through Apple's store for Apple's reader. O'Reilly wi…

Amazon writes a player for every platform because the kindle format is a proprietary one created by amazon.

Apple doesn't have to write a player for every platform because epubs are an open standard.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#50

Post by stonemetal »

drp wrote: post #4

What if Apple started demanding 30% of all sales transacted on every device they produce? What makes an iPhone so different from a MacBook?

Isn't that why there is now a app store for macs? Apple wanted 30% there too.
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