Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#31

Post by mcv » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #16

leeshire wrote: post #3

any reason why rasberries and strawberries have the words berries in them then?

The word "berry" goes back to proto-Germanic. Outside the context of botany, it means "small fruit". (And even in the 9th century, it meant "small fruit", though at the time it was more strongly associated with grapes than it is now.) Carl Linnaeus lived in the 18th century. The botanical sense of "berry" developed from the ordinary sense -- almost certainly because someone was investigating "what do all these berrie…

In Dutch, whales ("walvis") are fish. But jellyfish and starfish aren't. Squids ("inktvis") are.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#32

Post by blowski » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #19

dvh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason Stonehenge have henge in it's name

For reference, the "henge" in Stonehenge means a gallows, and is thought to be a reference to the shape of the structures. (What do you do on a gallows? You hang.)

Another theory is that it refers to the way the top stone "hinges" on the bottom two. Nobody is certain about the etymology.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#33

Post by xorand » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

Btw, you know that spiders are not insects?

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#34

Post by OJFord » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:04 AM UTC

blowski wrote: post #29

mcv wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know peanuts weren't nuts, but hazelnuts and walnuts?!

If you can find it, there's an episode of the BBC comedy panel show "Unbelievable Truth" where they list all the nuts that aren't nuts. Entertaining and surprising. The bit we eat is usually a seed or fruit - the shell encasing it is a nut. At least, that's what I understood.

And certainly an episode or several of the BBC's (television though, not radio) QI too.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#35

Post by simonh » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

elcomet wrote: post #24

In french, we have the word "Baie", which means berry, but is not widely used for fruits, and we also have another expression which is much more used, "Fruits rouges", literally "red fruits". I think it covers more accurately fruits like raspberries, strawberries, and others. I don't know if "red fruits" is also used in english.

Yp, we have that as well but it's very informal, you won't usually see it on product packaging but at home I'll ask one of my kids for a glass of 'red juice'. 'Forest Fruits' is a common generic name for a mix of red berry juices or fruits.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#36

Post by lordgrenville » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #25

That strawberries are not true berries becomes fairly obvious once you learn that tomatoes are berries. All berries seem to have fairly watery flesh surrounded by a thin but tough skin. Tomatoes have both, strawberries have neither. Raspberries superficially look like a collection of tiny berries from this perspective. Bananas have a skin, but it's not thin, and their flesh is not watery. That's just my layman's anal…

There's a deeper point here about how scientific taxonomies differ from folk taxonomies. Scientists might decide to classify something based on its genetic makeup or microscopic structure, whereas laypeople will classify based on macroscopic appearance or use or taste. Neither one of these is closer to the absolute truth, they are both just heuristics useful in different contexts.

Scott Alexander has a somewhat related post: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-ma...

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#37

Post by cryptica » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #4

Is anything actually gained from rigid definitions like this? People clearly use berry in a different way than botanists do.

Agreed, botanists should just make up new words like `fructus`, `berrius` and `vegetablus` to avoid confusion.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#38

Post by arrrg » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

d--b wrote: post #27

The scientific name is bad, it confuses everyone. Why not change that instead of telling people that berries aren't berries?

But from a culinary perspective strawberries are berries. So the name is correct for that context.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#39

Post by elcomet » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #35

elcomet wrote: post #24

In french, we have the word "Baie", which means berry, but is not widely used for fruits, and we also have another expression which is much more used, "Fruits rouges", literally "red fruits". I think it covers more accurately fruits like raspberries, strawberries, and others. I don't know if "red fruits" is also used in english.

Yp, we have that as well but it's very informal, you won't usually see it on product packaging but at home I'll ask one of my kids for a glass of 'red juice'. 'Forest Fruits' is a common generic name for a mix of red berry juices or fruits.

I see. Here, it is usually on the packaging (and we never see berry). We say 'Forest fruits' as well.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#40

Post by staz » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 10:30 AM UTC

elcomet wrote: post #24

In french, we have the word "Baie", which means berry, but is not widely used for fruits, and we also have another expression which is much more used, "Fruits rouges", literally "red fruits". I think it covers more accurately fruits like raspberries, strawberries, and others. I don't know if "red fruits" is also used in english.

All the "fruits rouges" are not red and it confuse me a lot (e.g. Blueberries)