Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#11

Post by blowski » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:07 AM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #4

Is anything actually gained from rigid definitions like this? People clearly use berry in a different way than botanists do.

It's just wordplay, a basic pun, because the same word, "berry", appears in two different contexts. In everyday usage, a strawberry is a berry, but in botany it's not.

If you're doing botany, you should probably use the latin term Fragaria instead of strawberry.

Edit: If you like this, you'll also find interesting that many nuts (hazlenuts, walnuts, Brazil nuts, pecans, almonds) are not nuts but seeds. One of the few actual nuts is a chestnut.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#12

Post by wodenokoto » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:07 AM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #4

Is anything actually gained from rigid definitions like this? People clearly use berry in a different way than botanists do.

knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are fruits, wisdom is to know not to put them in a fruit salad.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#13

Post by rob74 » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

One of the many questions the article leaves open is what (if any) fruit called "berries" are actually berries? I did some quick research, and apparently cranberries, blueberries, lingonberries and huckleberries are also "botanical berries" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry#Botanical_definition)...

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#14

Post by ovi256 » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #8

And Tomatoes, by ruling of a Massachusetts court, “are a vegetable for tax purposes”

And Congress ruled that tomato pizza sauce is a vegetable for nutritional purposes. Don't you feel well legislated ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/did-congr...

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#15

Post by 8note » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

mehrdada wrote: post #2

Potato plant produces a berry too, but the actual fruit is toxic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_fruit

if I remember correctly, the potato itself is toxic raw

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#16

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

leeshire wrote: post #3

any reason why rasberries and strawberries have the words berries in them then?

The word "berry" goes back to proto-Germanic. Outside the context of botany, it means "small fruit". (And even in the 9th century, it meant "small fruit", though at the time it was more strongly associated with grapes than it is now.)

Carl Linnaeus lived in the 18th century. The botanical sense of "berry" developed from the ordinary sense -- almost certainly because someone was investigating "what do all these berries have in common?", and picked a trait that identified the largest number of small fruit.

You can see the same thing happening with "fish". Starfish and jellyfish are not "fish" in a taxonomic sense, but they are things that live in the water. In Chinese, octopuses and crocodiles are also "fish". (章鱼 and 鳄鱼, where 鱼 by itself is "fish".)

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#17

Post by fredsted » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:20 AM UTC

monadic2 wrote: post #4

Is anything actually gained from rigid definitions like this? People clearly use berry in a different way than botanists do.

Just something to bring up as idle conversation around the water cooler.

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#18

Post by blowski » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #10

leeshire wrote: post #3

any reason why rasberries and strawberries have the words berries in them then?

The world "berry" and "fruit" have both a technical botanist definition, and a culinary definition. Like okra is a fruit from a botany perspective but not a culinary one. If you asked for a fruit smoothie and received an okra smoothie on I imagine you wouldn't be happy.

My gosh - Okra smoothie is actually a thing! That must taste... interesting.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/juice-and-smoothie-recipe-with...

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#19

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

dvh wrote: post #5

leeshire wrote: post #3

any reason why rasberries and strawberries have the words berries in them then?

For the same reason Stonehenge have henge in it's name

For reference, the "henge" in Stonehenge means a gallows, and is thought to be a reference to the shape of the structures.

(What do you do on a gallows? You hang.)

Re: Bananas Are Berries, Strawberries Aren't

#20

Post by mrleiter » Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 9:26 AM UTC

There's a very good video on this [1] by Innuendo Studios on why this discussion is more or subjective, since it matters in what context you say it and what you mean by it.

He does this with the example of a tomato, which by botanical defintion is a fruit. But in culinary terms, it is a vegetable. So when someone says "haha, did you know that a tomato is actually a fruit", it's subjective and can almost have no added value in a discussion. Botanists know it's a fruit. Cooks know the taste of the tomato and will use it accordingly. Hence, nothing is gained. Except confusion and unnecessary discussion.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmxIK9p0SNM