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Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

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Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#51

Google, my employer, recently refused a request that I made to release as open source some software that I had been working on in my spare time and without using any of their resources, on they claim that my software would compete with one of their projects. :-(

Sounds like a good story to blog about and post on HN.

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#53
post #17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also varies somewhat by state; there's a law in California (Labor Code section 2870[1]) that bars employers from claiming work that an employee does "on his or her own time without using the employer's equipment, supplies, facilities or trade secret information" unless the invention relates directly to the employer's business. I'd still check with a lawyer, though, even if in California --- and if elsewhere, mos…

It may be harder than you expect to establish that you're not in a business related to your former employer, at least to the extent that you can quickly end a legal action; all I'm saying is, that legal safeguard may not be as helpful as you'd hope.

Remember that you aren't trying to convince a bunch of HN readers - you are trying to convince a judge (who thinks computers are magic boxes)

If your day job is Oracle DBA and your startup is iPhone apps or web design that still equals the same "computer stuff" to a judge.

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#54

Google, my employer, recently refused a request that I made to release as open source some software that I had been working on in my spare time and without using any of their resources, on they claim that my software would compete with one of their projects. :-(

Google even prevented one prominent C# expert from renewing his microsoft MVP once he went to work for them - and this was in europe where workers generally have some protection

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#56

Google, my employer, recently refused a request that I made to release as open source some software that I had been working on in my spare time and without using any of their resources, on they claim that my software would compete with one of their projects. :-(

California employment law most likely addresses an employee's "duty of loyalty" to their employer, even in the absence of a contract. This means that you won't compete with the company or work against its interests while remaining in the employ of the company.

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#57
post #51

Google, my employer, recently refused a request that I made to release as open source some software that I had been working on in my spare time and without using any of their resources, on they claim that my software would compete with one of their projects. :-(

Sounds like a good story to blog about and post on HN.

Thanks. I'd like to write about it but, sadly, there are some relatively confidential details there (e.g. information about the Google project that my software would be theoretically competing with) that I can't reveal publicly.

I'm not ready to give up my employment over this (though it does significantly lower the bar for what another organization would need to offer me in order for me to consider switching jobs :-().

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#58
I think that the most ridiculous contracts are the ones that attempt to assert ownership of things you have produced before you even worked at the company. (i.e. anything that you have created, are creating, and will create in the future) Companies/lawyers will do this claiming that it's only a defensive measure, but once they have that power over you, they will not hesitate to go on the offensive if they think they have something to gain by doing so.

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#59

IANAL, but in the UK, unless you have a contract that specifically says otherwise, yes. On the other hand, if the outside work provably used no employer resources, and provably is unrelated, then you can probably defend yourself against an action. But you really, really don't want to depend on that. Get it sorted up front. Get an explicit agreement with your employer that non-competing work done without their resourc…

UK legislation will only give an employer copyright if the work was created "in the course of his employment" (Chapter I section 11(2) of the act). So essentially if it's part of the job.

But I agree it's better to just get it agreed upfront.

Re: Does my company have IP rights to the stuff I do in my spare time?

#60
post #30
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be harder than you expect to establish that you're not in a business related to your former employer, at least to the extent that you can quickly end a legal action; all I'm saying is, that legal safeguard may not be as helpful as you'd hope.

You're absolutely right. There are really two questions here: * Does my employer own this? * Will they make me prove that in court? The damnable thing is that, even if you really do own your work, having to prove that you own it in court may kill your startup by making you run out of money.

The other way of looking at your latter point: I try to work for people who would brag about successful former employees. Enlightened managers cultivate an "alumni network."
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