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1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

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Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#141
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? As a platform, surely not. The wheels came off by the end of 2008 when S60 5th Edition went touch-only, leaving keyboard devices still shipping with the hopelessly outdated 3rd Edition. Symbian touch devices never gained any platform traction. Was it a success as a software foundation upon which handset makers could innovate, as had been the original idea behind Symbian? No. Everyone that us…

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

>by what metric?

sign of the first derivative.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#143
post #117
post #69

Does this remind anyone else of SGI? - Total domination of their own field - Resting on laurels while others snatch the market from under them - Panic - Get a CEO from Microsoft - CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering - Company continues dive to irrelevance, albeit at a much faster rate than before Well, the last one…

> - CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering And it's even better when you factor in that in each case there is a viable and much better suited free and open option available. Linux would have made a much better choice as a transitional platform from IRIX. It's nepotism on the corporate level & just like nepotism will de…

> Linux would have made a much better choice as a transitional platform from IRIX.

It would have, but this was 1998, so very few of us knew this at the time. I don't know if you remember the tech zeitgeist in 1998, but Linux was still a pretty hardcore geek alternative at the time, maybe like Vim today. NT had things like journaled filesystems.

You can delve into history to see what the Linux community was talking about at the time:

http://old.lwn.net/archives/ http://old.lwn.net/1998/1001/

"Intel and Netscape are now officially investors in Red Hat Software. A year ago such a thing would have been almost unthinkable. But times have changed."

"With this release, the GNOME desktop is reaching a usable state."

http://old.lwn.net/1998/1008/

"Expect that, with the introduction of pre-installed Linux systems from vendors like Gateway, IBM, Dell or others, the number of people searching out a Linux VAR in order to get a pre-installed Linux system will rapidly dwindle."

http://old.lwn.net/1998/1015/

"Oracle has announced that it will ship and support a Linux distribution."

http://old.lwn.net/1998/1022/press.php3

"Like sex in high school, everyone's talking about Linux, but is anyone doing it?"

http://old.lwn.net/1998/1029/

"140,000 Mexican school labs to be outfitted with Linux and GNOME." (That was the "Red Escolar" or "Scholar Net" project. Its failure is described in http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2001/08/45737: "RedEscolar, or "Scholar Net," has put computers in 4,500 schools, but fewer than 20 are equipped with GNU/Linux machines. The rest are running Windows 95 or 98.".)

So, from the standpoint of 2011, it's easy to see that committing head-on to Linux could have saved SGI. But, at the time, it was a risky decision.

They did actually start to hitch their wagon to Linux a year later: Scott Bekker "SGI Backs Away from Windows NT - Silicon Graphics - Company Business and Marketing". ENT. FindArticles.com. 11 Feb, 2011. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FOX/is_15_4/ai_55675...

Rick Belluzzo was the CEO who made the NT decision. WP says had been working at HP for the last 23 years, not Microsoft, but he did take a job at Microsoft after being deposed at SGI. WP also says his only degree is a BS in accounting from Golden Gate University, a vocational school, so he's probably not very smart.

Here's what he said about working with Bill Gates: "I was always surprised how much Bill knew. I wonder how you find time in the day to be on top of how many things Bill seemed to be on top of. Bill is so passionate about technology, and he really is in the right role to focus the vast majority of his time."

To me, that sounds like typical non-hacker cluelessness. So maybe it's not that surprising that Rick was blind to the finer points of technical risk, compatibility, portability, and how the free-software community worked. (He was also largely responsible for committing HP to Itanic, effectively killing PA-RISC.)

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#144
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symbian has not been doing well, and their fans won't support it forever. Prominent Symbian enthusiasts (Symbian-Guru) on giving up the platform: (engadget summary) http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/01/symbian-guru-shuts-down-s... (same story summarized by TC) http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/01/self-declared-longtime-noki...

Those articles point more towards Nokia's support. I am more curious if there is something wrong with the actual OS.

That depends on you viewpoint. The OS itself is technically good (as in significantly better designed than android and friends).

On the other hand, Symbian has some generally good design assumptions (for example client-server division of almost anything) that are hard for programmers that come from other platforms/just don't care and thus it's architecture is often hacked around, which sadly includes many applications written by Nokia itself.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#145
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like 1. Board isn't impressed with current inhouse developements, and wants a "modern" mobile OS. There aren't really many alternatives to WP7. 2. Old CEO doesn't want to bend over to MS 3. Kick old CEO out and get a guy from MS to do negotiations with MS to license WP7

> There aren't really many alternatives to WP7. Can you say it with a straight face? Without laughing?

Sure, why not? You cannot count Android as "many". Ok, you can, but let's not go there.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

Comparing market share of Symbian devices to iPhone or Android is like comparing market share of bicycles to market share of cars. Symbian OS has several version. The version that ships in volume powers devices like Nokia C1-01 http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdeta... or worse. It's not the same product as iPhone or Android or even the old Palm OS shipped on Treo. The share of Symbian OS device…

No, that's a misunderstanding. The C1 and its ilk are not Symbian devices.

Most of Nokia's cheap phones are on the Series 40 platform, which is a closed "non-smart" OS (that has nevertheless grown some fairly smart features recently, like QWERTY keyboards and a HTML browser).

Symbian by Nokia comes in three flavours:

- Symbian^3, the latest and greatest -- e.g. the E7: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/E7-...

- Symbian^1, the previous touchscreen Symbian version (a.k.a. S60 5th Edition): http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/C5-...

- Symbian S60 3rd Edition, still used on keyboard devices: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/E72

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

>by what metric? sign of the first derivative.

At which point on the curve?

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

Comparing market share of Symbian devices to iPhone or Android is like comparing market share of bicycles to market share of cars. Symbian OS has several version. The version that ships in volume powers devices like Nokia C1-01 http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdeta... or worse. It's not the same product as iPhone or Android or even the old Palm OS shipped on Treo. The share of Symbian OS device…

[deleted]

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

>by what metric? sign of the first derivative.

I think integrating would be better, because it seems wrong to judge a products "success" only at some specific instant of time, rather than judging it over a full period of time.

The sign of the first derivative only gives you the present rate of adoption/abandonment of the platform, while integrating gives you a measure of success over the platform's entire existence.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#150
post #143
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering And it's even better when you factor in that in each case there is a viable and much better suited free and open option available. Linux would have made a much better choice as a transitional platform from IRIX. It's nepotism on the corporate level & just like nepotism will de…

> Linux would have made a much better choice as a transitional platform from IRIX. It would have, but this was 1998, so very few of us knew this at the time. I don't know if you remember the tech zeitgeist in 1998, but Linux was still a pretty hardcore geek alternative at the time, maybe like Vim today. NT had things like journaled filesystems. You can delve into history to see what the Linux community was talking ab…

Excellent response.

The the historic state of Linux at the time makes all the difference. I should have been more general and said "Open Platform." Because at the time BSD was a much less risky choice -- it was more mature & didn't have the GPL license stigma being pushed so hard.

The outcome of the SGI WinNT decision is even more interesting when juxtaposed with Apple's decisions during the same time period.

The adoption & use of FreeBSD as the base of OS X's Posix layer shows how SGI could have gained all the benefit of a set of core tools that they needed to stop spending money on maintaining while still retaining control of the best parts of IRIX.

In 1998 both Apple and SGI were on the ropes. Apple embraced and integrated open source, SGI turned to a closed platform. Apple immediately got geeks like me on-board (still have my OS X 10.0.x disk around here somewhere). The difference between the two companies & where they stand now is the ultimate example of how open source can help a corporation succeed.

Apple was pushing very hard at the time to get geeks on. They actually flew their evangelist and lead dev for OS 7 out to my undergrad CompSci program in '99. They really wanted to get a foothold with a dev community & integrating FreeBSD not only allowed them to save on the cost of developing a whole new posix layer, but also was a great way to get a new community of developers interested in the platform.

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