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1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

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Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#131

Post by joezydeco »

berntb wrote: post #109
leon_ wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I started liking Nokia again because of their Maemo/Meego engagement. I'm an iOS developer but in private I use a Maemo phone (the N900) which fulfills my geek needs. I hoped for a cool N900 successor with a cap. touch screen and a little more power but ... well ... I guess Nokia will make something half assed. Meego phones (which run a real linux - not closed bullshit like android) would have been an awesome al…

Hear hear. An open O/S for my phone named the same as a Lovecraftian monster... I was starting to read the Qt docs, Gnome/Mac user and all. :-(

Knowing a little Qt isn't a bad thing, and it's kind of fun to prototype stuff on a desktop and have it run in an embedded environment with a quick recompile.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#132

Post by yangyang »

redthrowaway wrote: post #130
barista wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but MS-DOS was followed up by windows 3.1 and then windows 95 both of which were a huge success. What followed up symbian was not. I think this is very sensible for them to focus on hardware while let somebody else do the software. Though I must agree their choice of MSFT is startling. I expected them to fragment Android even further. Glad that didn't happen.

I'm actually not surprised by the choice of wp7, and not simply because the new ceo is ex-MS. Going with Android would make Nokia just another Sony/Samsung/HTC, but throwing all of their eggs in the WP7 basket at least gives them a chance to maintain some relevance as a distinct entity. It's going to be rough on the hardware guys though, making every new phone with a Windows logo on it.

Why does Winphone 7 make them more distinct? It offers far fewer opportunities for distinction than Android.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#133

Post by wazoox »

hvs wrote: post #115
beagle3 wrote: post #69

Does this remind anyone else of SGI? - Total domination of their own field - Resting on laurels while others snatch the market from under them - Panic - Get a CEO from Microsoft - CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering - Company continues dive to irrelevance, albeit at a much faster rate than before Well, the last one…

I don't disagree with you in general, but IRIX was a dog of an OS. They dominated in hardware, but the OS was always something you just had to live with.

A dog by what metric? In 1994 IRIX was the first 64 bit Unix kernel running on the first 64 bit workstation. In 1997, the same IRIX 6.5 could run on machines from 100Mhz/16MB to 512 cpus monsters. IRIX had really a nice, easy user interface, and many features (real-time IOs, /hw virtual filesystems giving a hint of /proc and /sys long before they came into existence, modular kernel, full 32 bits compatibility on 64 bits machines...) that were long to come on other OS.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#134

Post by rbanffy »

zokier wrote: post #124
rbanffy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android could be built/merged with MeeGo. They have the same kernel and all hardware-specific work would be reused. Both userlands could run side by side.

I don't think you realize how different Android and MeeGo (or atleast Maemo) are. They aren't running the same kernel and their userland is completely different. The fact that both have bits of linux inside doesn't really make them alike. It probably would be easier to port Qt for WP7 than integrate Android on top of MeeGo.

It cannot be that hard. If Linux, MeeGo and Android kernels diverged too much, maybe it's time to unify them in a way they all can share the maximum amount of code and effort.

I agree porting Qt to WP7 shouldn't be much of a problem too, or a much larger one.

But I suspect that Nokia's plan may prove hard to follow because it will be very hard to convince people to use WP7 phones.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#135

Post by rbanffy »

pavlov wrote: post #113
andrewljohnson wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symbian was not a failure... it was a giant succes for quite a long time. That's like calling MS-DOS a failure.

A success by what metric? As a platform, surely not. The wheels came off by the end of 2008 when S60 5th Edition went touch-only, leaving keyboard devices still shipping with the hopelessly outdated 3rd Edition. Symbian touch devices never gained any platform traction. Was it a success as a software foundation upon which handset makers could innovate, as had been the original idea behind Symbian? No. Everyone that us…

> A success by what metric?

Pretty much since the time it was called EPOC. It failed to grow and support more resources, as phones became more powerful than the desktop computers of the time it was designed in, and it's no longer suited for current smartphones. It still excels on the low end, where neither Android nor WP7 reach.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#136

Post by rbanffy »

beagle3 wrote: post #69

Does this remind anyone else of SGI? - Total domination of their own field - Resting on laurels while others snatch the market from under them - Panic - Get a CEO from Microsoft - CEO quickly decides that the O/S developed in house is not worth maintaining. And that the right O/S is no other than Microsoft's offering - Company continues dive to irrelevance, albeit at a much faster rate than before Well, the last one…

Actually, I think you are confusing things. Rich Belluzzo worked at HP, where he convinced the company to reduce development of PA and HP/UX, favoring Windows and Itanic. He then went to SGI, where he convinced the company to license its IP to Nvidia, support NT on x86 and other stupid ideas. He then went to MSN and it became obvious, at least for me, he was working for Redmond all that time.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#137

Post by rbanffy »

redthrowaway wrote: post #130
barista wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but MS-DOS was followed up by windows 3.1 and then windows 95 both of which were a huge success. What followed up symbian was not. I think this is very sensible for them to focus on hardware while let somebody else do the software. Though I must agree their choice of MSFT is startling. I expected them to fragment Android even further. Glad that didn't happen.

I'm actually not surprised by the choice of wp7, and not simply because the new ceo is ex-MS. Going with Android would make Nokia just another Sony/Samsung/HTC, but throwing all of their eggs in the WP7 basket at least gives them a chance to maintain some relevance as a distinct entity. It's going to be rough on the hardware guys though, making every new phone with a Windows logo on it.

> Going with Android would make Nokia just another Sony/Samsung/HTC

IIRC, Samsung, HTC and Dell are offering WP7 phones.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#138

Post by rbanffy »

zokier wrote: post #122
marshray wrote: post #9

Let's see 1. Hire someone from Microsoft to run the company 2. He says "our platform is burning, we have to do something drastic" which most people interpret as "prepare to come up with a strategy and fight like hell to win". 3. Guess what, he already had something in mind! It was "throw out our current reasonably successful development efforts and become a licensee of Microsoft's failed platform instead". And piss o…

More like 1. Board isn't impressed with current inhouse developements, and wants a "modern" mobile OS. There aren't really many alternatives to WP7. 2. Old CEO doesn't want to bend over to MS 3. Kick old CEO out and get a guy from MS to do negotiations with MS to license WP7

> There aren't really many alternatives to WP7.

Can you say it with a straight face? Without laughing?

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#139

Post by bayleo »

eiji wrote: post #60

Am I the only one happy that WP7 is NOT dead? I very much prefer a threesome! Every mobil user will benefit from this. And this is not like Desktop. Everybody will have to bring their A-Game.

You're not the only one. I am stoked for some nice WP7 handsets. I'm currently an Android user but the new WP7 UI looks gorgeous and Microsoft's response to the Chevron exploit was admirable. It appears that they generally understand the importance of a homebrew ecosystem coexisting with their IP.

My career path has me working at or consulting with huge companies who are typically entrenched with Outlook & MS Office and if Microsoft can provide a better integration experience than Android with a piece of hardware that rivals Android handsets I will definitely check them out when it comes time to upgrade. I'm hoping the Nokia alliance works out and starts providing some competitive hardware.

Re: 1000+ Nokia workers have walked out in protest (in English via Google Translate)

#140

Post by kkowalczyk »

asynchronous13 wrote: post #128
pavlov wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A success by what metric? As a platform, surely not. The wheels came off by the end of 2008 when S60 5th Edition went touch-only, leaving keyboard devices still shipping with the hopelessly outdated 3rd Edition. Symbian touch devices never gained any platform traction. Was it a success as a software foundation upon which handset makers could innovate, as had been the original idea behind Symbian? No. Everyone that us…

A success by what metric? how about global market share? 2008: 52.4% of smartphones (RIM 17%, Apple 10%) [1] 2009: 47.2% of smartphones (RIM 21%, Apple 15%) [1] Android came in at 0.5% and 5% for those two years. Gartner forecasts that Symbian will remain in the number one smartphone OS position until 2014 when it is contested by Android [2] Sure, it's in decline now, but it's been a phenomenal success. [1] http://ww…

Comparing market share of Symbian devices to iPhone or Android is like comparing market share of bicycles to market share of cars.

Symbian OS has several version. The version that ships in volume powers devices like Nokia C1-01 http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdeta... or worse. It's not the same product as iPhone or Android or even the old Palm OS shipped on Treo.

The share of Symbian OS devices shipping a version comparable to iPhone or Android is a blip on the radar. A drop in the ocean. And a peasant among Kings.

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