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Actix project postmortem

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Re: Actix project postmortem

#81

Post by fouc »

tiku wrote: post #61
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

Once it's public and people depend on it you can't retract it like that. His goal was to make his work public, not private.

The point of open source is that people can maintain their own forks etc. There's plenty of mirrors of actix I'm sure.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#82

Post by saagarjha »

josephg wrote: post #74
teddyh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

No you don’t. You aren’t alone in assuming that, but it’s an entirely unreasonable expectation. And as evidenced by this exact thread, people like you cause good developers to stop maintaining their projects. Your attitude harms our community. Practically speaking, if I give you some work I did for free yesterday, and give you some work I do for free today, that does not entitle you to free work from me tomorrow. It…

Cool, you don’t have to work in the project if you don’t want to. But going and nuking it off the face of the earth so nobody can have it is still impolite.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#84

Post by fouc »

toyg wrote: post #73
tannhaeuser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. For me, what's implicit is that any software, commercial or F/OSS, can be abandoned at any time - because that's just the way it is. A remedy would be to use software coded to a specification with mulitple implementations such that in case a project folds, you might be able to switch over to a different implementation. The Java EE ecosystem used to be like that until around 2012 or so.

> what's implicit is that any software, commercial or F/OSS, can be abandoned at any time This is particularly true when you look at what licenses say: ... THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. ... THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE P…

Good examples

Re: Actix project postmortem

#85

Post by pmlnr »

teddyh wrote: post #23
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

Yeah, no.

If you put your code out there open, it's still your code. If people start to rely on it, they need to be ready to maintain their branch.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#86

Post by qwerty456127 »

arcatek wrote: post #41
qwerty456127 wrote: post #17

People should really learn to ignore the emotional channel of the comments they receive. Just try to figure out if the message contains any useful information with a quick glance, extract it if it does and ignore the rest. People have to shit - that's physiologically inevitable, and there are people who do it in the streets and there are people who shit in comments/messages. Why take them serious?

> I used to do tech support and some people (not too many) wrote right out rude or nonsensical (like concluding I hate their religion just from the fact our service failed to suit their specific needs). This isn't at all the same thing. You were paid to do your job, and at the end of the day you could just joke about those weirdos. When working on an open-source project, everything becomes much more personal because…

I get you point, it makes sense, but I feel like I personally have already grown over that and everybody can: just know what are doing the job for. Are you helping the elderly to get their gratitude? No, just because I'm doing the right thing and I know some of them are jerks because loosing their sanity to Alzheimer's and because of hard life they had. Are you maintaining a free project for users' gratitude? No, I do because it's fun, because it expands my experience, fulfills my own needs, improves my CV and because I'm glad if somebody can use it for good. Never expect a reward if it's not guaranteed in the first place.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#87

Post by saagarjha »

buzzkillington wrote: post #52
onli wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. You can pay for amateur bullshit, and you can get professional software and support for free (and free as in freedom).

My Ethernet is stuck in ipv6, professionally tell me how to fix it, for free.

Sure, could you provide some more detail?

Re: Actix project postmortem

#88

Post by telmo »

teddyh wrote: post #23
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

> If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for. If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users.

As far as I can tell, this project was released under the Apache License 2.0.

https://github.com/actix/examples/blob/master/LICENSE

Clause 7 of said license says the following:

"7. Disclaimer of Warranty. Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing, Licensor provides the Work (and each Contributor provides its Contributions) on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or conditions of TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. You are solely responsible for determining the appropriateness of using or redistributing the Work and assume any risks associated with Your exercise of permissions under this License."

Other popular free software licenses (namely the GLP) have very similar clauses.

> It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making reasonable expectations based on promises implicitly made by the the project as it is presented.

Expecting labour from someone without paying them is the very definition of entitlement.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#89

Post by smashedtoatoms »

thrownaway954 wrote: post #36

I use to do a TON of open source back in the day. i quit cause of the same reason, people suck and feel they are entitled. i couldn't count how many times someone would yell, kick and scream about an issue they were having and demand that i fix it right away (ain't gonna happen dude). i finally got to the point where i told people that i would only participate in pull requests and nothing else. you could still file i…

We are all on notice. Be nice. Support and protect the people contributing to the world... or write it yourself.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#90

Post by pmlnr »

saagarjha wrote: post #82
josephg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don’t. You aren’t alone in assuming that, but it’s an entirely unreasonable expectation. And as evidenced by this exact thread, people like you cause good developers to stop maintaining their projects. Your attitude harms our community. Practically speaking, if I give you some work I did for free yesterday, and give you some work I do for free today, that does not entitle you to free work from me tomorrow. It…

Cool, you don’t have to work in the project if you don’t want to. But going and nuking it off the face of the earth so nobody can have it is still impolite.

It's good that git clones are all complete, full copies, including history.
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