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Actix project postmortem

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Re: Actix project postmortem

#61

Post by tiku »

tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

Once it's public and people depend on it you can't retract it like that. His goal was to make his work public, not private.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#62

Post by ksec »

teddyh wrote: post #23
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

>If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project

Not familiar with the project or Rust Ecosystem. Anyone else can comment whether it was presented / marketed / sold as an "active, dependable project" ?

As someone more used to the Ruby Rails ecosystem, I think the communities as a whole generally accept the convention that all open sources, whether they are backed by a single person or cooperate account, are given out as it is ( MIT ) and their maintainer or author will do the support or development as they could when they are FREE. And it is perfectly acceptable of forking it to make your own variation or improvement.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#63

Post by oefrha »

onli wrote: post #40
buzzkillington wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easy way to tell is to remember if you're paying them or not.

That's not true at all. You can pay for amateur bullshit, and you can get professional software and support for free (and free as in freedom).

You can get professional software and support for free, until you can’t. This “you’ve provided me free support once, so it’s your obligation to support me for free indefinitely whenever I ask” attitude has certainly contributed to my open source exhaustion as a maintainer.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#64

Post by jeltz »

zzzcpan wrote: post #47
logophobia wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not coding style, it's refusing to investigate use-after-free vulnerabilities in code because it's "boring". Noone should care if a maintainer uses tabs or spaces, or has weird variable naming, but if "coding-style" leads to security issues (due to hand-rolling unsafe memory-primitives), then it is an actual issue, especially if it's for a popular web-framework. Don't like it, don't use it doesn't really apply t…

> it's refusing to investigate use-after-free vulnerabilities Please investigate yourself, don't ask others to do the work you consider important for you for free.

People did investigate for him and write a patch for him and he dismissed the patch with it being "boring".

Re: Actix project postmortem

#65

Post by mannycalavera »

fraktl wrote: post #13

Open source maintainers have a hard time - especially when they're under criticism and receive zero positive vibes. Author mentions it, here's the excerpt: Be a maintainer of large open source project is not a fun task. You alway face with rude and hate, everyone knows better how to build software, nobody wants to do home work and read docs and think a bit and very few provide any help. This a big problem with open s…

Evan Czaplicki (Elm designer) has a great talk about this issue "The Hard Parts of Open Source" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_4EX4dPppA

Re: Actix project postmortem

#66

Post by shirshak55 »

j-pb wrote: post #32
shirshak55 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now due to that comment actix maintainer has disabled issue too. I don't know why people show such attitude as if they are paying him to do opensource.

In open source you give and take. The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work. This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share. It is your choice to use open source software without open sourcing your own work or without contributing. But by engaging in op…

"The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work."

Prove it.

"But by engaging in open source you engage in a social contract" https://gist.github.com/richhickey/1563cddea1002958f96e7ba95...

Re: Actix project postmortem

#67

Post by siscia »

j-pb wrote: post #37
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

In open source you give and take. The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work. This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share. It is your choice to use open source software without open sourcing your own work or without contributing. But by engaging in op…

Dude, sorry to break this to you! But basically any widely used software is supported by major companies just to avoid this problem.

Libraries, compilers and kernels alike.

If you want to rely on software being there, you should be ready to pay for people to support it.

> This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share.

It is clear to me that is not true anymore. It is really hard to find open source project without clear direct financial incentives.

Again, as a community, we should start to pay for the components we use.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#68

Post by zokier »

teddyh wrote: post #23
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

> professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for. If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.

It's in big capital letters there. Explicitly no implied promises.

> It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making reasonable expectations based on promises implicitly made by the the project as it is presented

That is almost literally the definition of entitlement

Re: Actix project postmortem

#70

Post by saagarjha »

Steve0 wrote: post #28
teddyh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

I've never heard of "implicit promises". For me a promise is by definition explicit. Anything else are assumptions, in this case false assumptions.

In many contexts, there’s often an implicit promise to be courteous to others, even if it’s not defined explicitly.
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