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Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

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Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#171

Post by rtpg »

novok wrote: post #108
tareqak wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why umbrellas specifically? I read the article and I enjoyed it, but the question of why umbrellas are not treated the same in terms of being returned was mentioned but not answered. Near the end of the article, there is this sentence > “Communal property is virtually unheard of except for that many people seem to regard umbrellas as up for grabs if not properly secured.”

You can buy them everywhere for 300-1000 yen, those models are the ones that everyone uses so it isn't much of a sacrifice for everyone to buy another umbrella a few times a year.

an even more basic answer is that these super cheap umbrellas that everyone buys all look kinda the same, so it's hard to track your own umbrella unless you put some sort of sticker on it.

So it's not even necessarily a concious system, just the end result of easily being confused between umbrellas.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#172

Post by m4rtink »

omegaworks wrote: post #126
nwienert wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Japan. Immigration is absolutely nothing like European or American countries.

I have. I've been to Tokyo. When I said you can find people of every ethnicity, I meant I encountered people of every ethnicity. 1 in 10 residents of Tokyo are foreign nationals[1]. https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO32872510R10C18A7EA2000/

The situation is very very different outside of a few big cities. We spent a few days in Izumo and in the area around it and we hardly saw any non Japanese at the turrist spots, let alone any locals.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#173

Post by m4rtink »

CydeWeys wrote: post #156
virtuous_signal wrote: post #10

This smells like a lot of post-hoc rationalization. Collectivism? What about China, which did terribly on this kind of test. Shintoism? Only 3-4% of the population follows that. See https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people-are-honest-los... where the graphic in the middle of the page compares countries. It appears that Scandinavian countries fare best followed by Eastern European. I would be happy to hear what p…

Syncretic Shintoism/Buddhism is pervasive in Japan. It's absolutely not true that only 3-4% believe in it. The real figure is way higher. The issue is it's not a religion that you believe in in the same sense as, say, Christianity; there's a lot of disparate practices that most people adhere to at least some of. Just walking around in Japanese cities, you see shrines everywhere. Way more than you see churches in US c…

BTW, the japanese Shinto shrines and Budhist temples just seem so much more alive and part of the community, than western churches, which often seem like almost foreign and disconnected from actual current society.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#174

Post by elSidCampeador »

irrational wrote: post #107
Reedx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

Generally the months with rain are the hotter ones - wearing a rain jacket would result in you sweating buckets

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#175

Post by tidenly »

mjevans wrote: post #138
cookingrobot wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once found a wallet on the sidewalk outside a mall in Japan. I tried to drop it at the mall's lost and found, but the security guard there took me with him to a police box. The policeman there took me to the local police station, and we spent the next hour filling out a report. They were all very friendly and appreciative that I turned it in, but it was really quite an ordeal. If I were to find something valuable a…

I think this might have more to do with you not being one of the locals. A good 'hack' to this might be to pick a set of 2-3 local looking people and loudly point out the item in question so that someone else can deal with it.

Even if you're a local this is the procedure. If the building doesn't have a lost and found (besides the train systems not all places do) then the police box will make you give over your contact information and a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't take an hou (maybe ten minutes if you speak Japanese), but it can be a pain if you just expected to throw it in without any questions.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#176

Post by matheusmoreira »

omegaworks wrote: post #139
matheusmoreira wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. The fact it's a right wing idea doesn't mean it's wrong. A nation's laws is written by its people. The fact is different peoples have different cultures and follow different sets of rules. The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. W…

>What usually happens is they stick together in foreigner groups for mutual support. Which is why proactive government outreach and support is so important. Why trust-building is important. People need to understand the VASTLY different role police play in Japan, and they need that information communicated in accessible ways. Harsh enforcement degrades that trust and creates insularity. Immigrants provide benefits to…

> Harsh enforcement degrades that trust and creates insularity.

Indeed. It increases the risk associated with being part of that society. I don't know what the correct answer is.

> Countries want the economic benefits of immigrants without the necessary investment in immigrant communities.

Many immigrants also want the benefits of living in a developed country with a high quality of life without fully integrating into the society that made it possible in the first place.

> Every person understands theft and the effects it has.

Yes, but the rules and consequences for violating them are not universal. Depending on where they come from, violence may be an acceptable way to resolve conflicts. In some circles, people are immediately held accountable for their actions. In other circles, they might be quietly excluded from a group.

> This notion that the immigrant or their community is somehow inherently lesser or more tolerant or capable of anti-social behavior is textbook xenophobia.

Not all immigrants will be like this but it is a mistake to simply ignore their background. Every immigrant has the potential to naturalize but it is also important to think about what could happen should they fail to integrate.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#178

Post by dredmorbius »

jyounker wrote: post #84
jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

There are other negative outlets. Evan Hadfield's "Rare Earth" has covered a couple of these:

- Japan's criminal justice system: https://invidio.us/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk

- Japan's untouchables: https://invidio.us/watch?v=SIsndKkasfI

(There are of course positive elements, and Hadfield has covered those as well.)

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#179

Post by NalNezumi »

I don't think you can point the reason for this on one specific cause, and better bundle it up as "culture".

I've wonder if this is also the cause for the low appreciation for privacy in the Japanese society. I've noticed that the Japanese seems to be more "ok" with the idea of Google/Facebook/Line/big company snooping around and collecting your data, even engineers. It is also culturally more accepted to point out physical feature and ask private questions in this country. "you've become fat!", "Why don't you have a girlfriend/boyfriend?", "you speak/walk/do something very weird" is comments you can get from both relatives, co-workers and not-so-close friends.

The typical "mind your own business" attitude you expect in the west seems to not be as prevalent here, and the "If you have nothing to hide, you don't need anonymity and privacy" is an argument most people consider to be valid here.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#180

Post by progman32 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #119
omegaworks wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration has been steadily increasing in Japan.[1] That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US[2]. 1. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan-... 2. https://en.wik…

> That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. The fact it's a right wing idea doesn't mean it's wrong. A nation's laws is written by its people. The fact is different peoples have different cultures and follow different sets of rules. The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. W…

> The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society.

Ideal according to what metric(s)?

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