What kind of data is my new car collecting? • Hacker News Board

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#111

Post by Jaruzel » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:20 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #107

SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

I think the used car market will get destroyed. In a few years buying a used car older than a few years will probably be a quaint memory. That is unless manufacturers will get forced to open up their systems by law.

I think the move to electric vehicles will actually collapse the second-hand car market - no-one wants to buy a car with batteries that no longer hold enough charge to complete a journey. We already see this effect with used laptops and smartphones, however I can never see changing your cars battery pack being a end-user activity.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#112

Post by ropiwqefjnpoa » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:22 PM UTC

geocrasher wrote: post #96

I'm proud to say that my vehicle has zero tracking, is user serviceable, and my purchase of it had zero carbon impact. It's also 32 years old, gets 14-15mpg, and drives like a truck. It's a 1988 Chevy Suburban. I bought it a few years ago, for $1450 and really haven't put much into it overall. It runs reasonable well (still some things to figure out) and is comfortable. If I had some money I'd fix some of the things…

You don't need to go that old or inefficient to avoid tracking or data uploads. Many modern cars have no GPS's or cell service (black box only).

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#113

Post by geocrasher » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #109

geocrasher wrote: post #96

I'm proud to say that my vehicle has zero tracking, is user serviceable, and my purchase of it had zero carbon impact. It's also 32 years old, gets 14-15mpg, and drives like a truck. It's a 1988 Chevy Suburban. I bought it a few years ago, for $1450 and really haven't put much into it overall. It runs reasonable well (still some things to figure out) and is comfortable. If I had some money I'd fix some of the things…

I'm glad you're happy with your ownership of that thing, but I'm more glad that most of them are off the road by now as we've made great strides in emissions and crash safety since the 80s, not to mention mileage. These are factors with measurable real-world impact on your fellow citizens, and, I would submit, more important than your paranoid secrecy wrt your dietary habits.

Heh it's not paranoia, it's just a matter of privacy. Then again, my phone already knows, so it's moot. Crash safety has come a long way, no doubt. But mileage really has not.

For all the complexity of a modern Suburban (at over $50K USD!) it gets 14 MPG around town and up to 23 MPG on the highway. Mine gets about 14/17. Since most of my driving is local, it doesn't really matter.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#114

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #87

flyingfences wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard allegations that some of the newer TVs will automatically scan for open networks in the background.

They very well might scan even with no networks configured (some Wi-Fi stacks scan in the background by default; it can reduce the the time the user has to wait when selecting an SSID or initiating a connection), but has anyone claimed that they actually connect? I think that would make headlines.

They don't need to connect to any network if they come with capability to connect to a mobile network like a Kindle.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#115

Post by blaser-waffle » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

jhoechtl wrote: post #28

As long as self-driving a car will be allowed (and I predict this will become quickly impossible the moment self-driven cars will share the space with autonomous vehicles) I will refrain buying any car collecting AND transmitting data without my consent. Yes that means in ten years or so I will be riding a used shabby old car.

that might work... until all of the cars on the road are self driving and non-self-drivers are no longer permitted.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#116

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

clucas wrote: post #99

SamuelAdams wrote: post #4

> “There’s just massive amounts of data being collected, and if you want the service, you have to agree to it. And people do agree to it, and they have relatively little control over things,” Scassa says. I'm curious what this will do to the used car market in 10-15 years. Say the original owner consented to all this data tracking. They go to sell the car to buy a new one, and the 2nd owner does not agree to the trac…

This is not legal advice, and you should consult an attorney if you believe that an OEM may come after you for tampering with your own vehicle. That said, I believe that there is very limited legal recourse for a vehicle OEM who wants to prevent an end user from changing the data collection and upload features of their vehicles. The worst thing would be potentially voiding the warranty, but for 10-15 year old used ve…

Don't forget that Tesla is now in this space, and turning off Tesla's access to it will turn off your car, period. I have a hard time believing that others in the industry will not take the blase reaction to this and then do it themselves.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#117

Post by falcolas » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #21

hprotagonist wrote: post #5

Not too long ago I owned a motorcycle from the 70s. I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof: no fuel injection, no fuel pump, certainly no OBD anything, and a (literal) kickstarter. The most complicated thing in the wiring harness was the key cylinder and the relay for the turn signals and headlights. I miss that bike sometimes.

> I realized at one point that it was probably EMP-proof The ignition coil will probably not survive an EMP event, so the bike will not run. However, it should be pretty straight forward to wind a new ignition coil if you ever find yourself in a post-nuclear situation.

It could be a magneto as well, which is more finicky to tune, but still mechanically simple and robust.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#118

Post by Seenso » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

One of my major requirements when I was shopping for my last car was that it not have a cell modem to enable connected car features. It's too difficult for them to monetize your data if they can't get it off your car in near-real time. I also reckon it's a bit more secure.

The car salesmen have no idea about whether the cars they're selling have modems or not, so I found you have to ask about them indirectly in terms of features. I has success with this line of questioning: 1) Does this car have connected car features? 2) If it does, and I decide to get them later, can you enable them from your computer without me having to bring my car in? If the answer is yes to both questions, the car has a modem.

Unfortunately, my wife wanted a car that failed that test. However, my research had indicated that those features seem to be implemented by a module that's separate from the entertainment system. Hopefully I can physically disconnect it without the car nagging about it being missing, but that's a project for another day.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#119

Post by blaser-waffle » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #92

0xffff2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What car did you end up buying?

I was in a similar situation and ended up with a 2011 Mazda3 hatchback. The plan is to limp this sucker along until hopefully our public transit infrastructure improves enough that I don't have to drive ever again.

HAH! Was shopping for something similar, albeit a 2012 and/or 2013 that a local dealer has in stock.

Same idea though: drive it until it dies and then pray that uber/lyft/whatever is mature enough that I never have to think about it again.

Re: What kind of data is my new car collecting?

#120

Post by admax88q » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #116

clucas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not legal advice, and you should consult an attorney if you believe that an OEM may come after you for tampering with your own vehicle. That said, I believe that there is very limited legal recourse for a vehicle OEM who wants to prevent an end user from changing the data collection and upload features of their vehicles. The worst thing would be potentially voiding the warranty, but for 10-15 year old used ve…

Don't forget that Tesla is now in this space, and turning off Tesla's access to it will turn off your car, period. I have a hard time believing that others in the industry will not take the blase reaction to this and then do it themselves.

Finally car manufacturers can kill the used car market just like video game companies killed the used game market.

I'm sure its not going to be long before you don't _own_ your car, you just purchased a license to use it for a period of time.