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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

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Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#181

Post by AstralStorm »

bsanr2 wrote: post #136
fouc wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Police have a tough job. They are on the lookout for any sign of danger. Make it clear that you are a sane, reasonable person. Keep your hands visible at all times. Avoid the element of surprise. > If you have any weapons or potentially dangerous items on you, keep your hands visible at all times and inform the officer. Inform the officer of your every move, if you need to reach for anything (your identification, yo…

I'm still unclear on what to do when a police officer has demonstrated intent to hurt or kill you, despite your cooperation.

Pick up sticks and get away as fast as possible. Expect to be shot at.

You can run from many kinds of encounters with Police when there's no presumption of guilt.

They're not allowed to use force in pursuit unless necessary, and running does not make it necessary on its own.

Fighting back is a good way to end up in jail as well as dead. Running can result in you getting away free at least.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#182

Post by bsanr2 »

mikorym wrote: post #155
bsanr2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand, much of he law that pertains to using a motor vehicle in the US is a pretense to legitimize traffic stops, which are then used for some other purpose (mostly busting drivers for more serious crimes, or else extracting fines from out-of-towners/minorities).

What is the point of having traffic stops of this kind? For example, why can't you just have traffic checks as a normal activity? In some countries (Botswana is an interesting example) the police stop you on public holidays and give you flyers and tell you "drive safely".

Our system allows police to selectively apply traffic rules. This means that the people who find them onerous and can fight back against them tend to be avoided, while more vulnerable people are subject to them more often.

You might remember the protests in Ferguson, MO, after Michael Brown was m̶u̶r̶d̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ killed. A federal investigation later revealed the tense police/public relations under which that incident took place: the jurisdiction was essentially using the traffic laws to extract rent, overwhelmingly from black residents. A traffic citation would require attending court (often without access to a vehicle); if a court date was missed, additional fines and an arrest warrant were issued, which of course the person would only become aware of during the next traffic stop. Police were encouraged to increase stops and citations to make up for lowered taxes. It's regressive fiscal policy you see popular among American conservatives because it shifts the tax burden off of people who are then more likely to vote for them, onto people "deserving" of punishment.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/03/ferguso...

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#183

Post by AstralStorm »

lovemenot wrote: post #169
laurieg wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a lawyer so I can't really give much of an opinion on this aspect. My layman's reading of that party of the constitution seems to suggest that searching people like this would be unlawful, but perhaps it had been judged in the past that not consenting to a search is sufficiently suspicious. The other common tactic I have seen is when the police want someone but cannot search or arrest then straightaway they…

What you say may well happen like this occasionally, but I would question the police's imputed motive. At least in general. My wife works in mental health in Japan. Nurses use this exact technique to contain potentially violent situations. Not for legal purposes, but for the safety of themselves, the patient who is surrounded and of others too. It's pretty effective in de-escalating and does not induce force from eit…

This is unconstitutional way of limiting movement, even by Japanese Constitution which is lax, and not allowed by statute for police operations.

Restraining movement does not require enclosure or other technical means, yet is still illegal. Police can literally stop you for a few reasons and no more.

If you literally tell the police to move away because they're illegally preventing you from moving in clear terms, if they hit you while you push through they're committing assault. Treat it like any other police brutality in court.

The first thing you have to do in this abuse of power situation is to get evidence, and by stupid Japanese law you're not allowed to take photographs of policemen I think, so get something else, like sound recording.

Suing them would be a fun pastime for someone rich, and a way to get the prosecutor to throw the case.

Of course of they really want you for something illegal, they will get you in some other way.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#184

Post by AstralStorm »

wtmt wrote: post #157
wyclif wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very Asian mentality, this (I'm living in SE Asia). Conformity and obedience are strongly-held cultural values.

Although some people's imagination of Asia is different from geographic reality, I'll make it comprehensive by admitting that it's the same in India too. I'm sure it's the same in neighboring countries in the rest of Asia. Conformity and submission to authorities, with emphasis on (respecting) hierarchy is ingrained in people. Of course, the governments and authorities always like submissive people, and paint anyone…

Indonesia and Thailand are slightly different though.

It matches for India, China, Japan and both Koreas.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#185

Post by mirimir »

thephyber wrote: post #130
mirimir wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess. So what, cops are coached to ask to help fund the department? If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it?

> If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it? Slightly more complicated, but not by much. It's not clear to me whether not talking versus explaining the situation would help or hurt your chances of keeping your money, but Civil Asset Forfeiture seems counter to the rest of the ideals of the US judicial system. They need to be able to say it is "more likely than not" related to a crime. If there is a hint of weed in…

All true.

But there has been some progress, in recent years.

Not enough, though.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#186

Post by AstralStorm »

wruza wrote: post #120
VitoVan wrote: post #2

I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia

Russia: ianal and giving advices is a “bear’s service” (making it only worse for you), but I can share my knowledge on interacting with the police. First thing is we here don’t have many guns and the status quo it’s not a crime to touch or bad manner the policeman (while not recommended, they can turn it against you easily at will). Second thing is you usually want to know what the case really is, and what they know…

Most importantly, you deal with prosecutor, advocate and judge, but not a jury like in the USA, so lying to the Police has much less chance to backfire. Lying stupidly is obviously bad anyway. Lying in court, very bad.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#187

Post by mirimir »

kjs3 wrote: post #111
mirimir wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She lied to federal investigators. That's illegal. Lying to local or state police, not so much.

Since local or state don't prosecute securities violations, yeah, I guess your right. But there are perjuries that can be committed at the local level, depending on the jurisdiction. Don't assume you can blow smoke and get away with it.

It's not just those feds. Lying to the FBI is a very bad idea. And even if you're guilty of something, they may let it go if it's not their focus. When the feds were first looking for the source of recreational drugs found by the postal service, they interviewed recipients. And as I recall, they didn't prosecute many (any?) of them. Or at least, not end users.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#188

Post by CompanionCuuube »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #88
mirimir wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone Why would they do that? Is that about being a drug dealer? I've probably been pulled over for speeding and/or crazy driving at least 30 times, and I've never been asked that.

At least as of a few years ago, when police in Ohio stop you they seem to like asking you if you have any firearms in the car, just as the stop is wrapping up. I never figured that one out, either.

Depending on the state, you must inform a police officer that you are carrying a gun at the beginning of the stop. It could be a trap or a pretense to search your car.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#189

Post by Polylactic_acid »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #180
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police in Australia are far from perfect but they seem like saints compared to American police. I have interacted with them a few times and it has always been very reasonable.

They're strip searching children, so I don't know that I'd hold them up as a shining example of excellent policing.

Yes but at least they aren't shooting children. I know its a low bar to set but thats what people are discussing in this thread.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#190

Post by indymike »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #7

According to lawyers I’ve spoken to in the U.K., your refusal to talk to the police is admissible as ... it’s somehow admissible in court. The prosecutor is allowed to tell a jury that it’s suspect you didn’t want to talk to the cops without a lawyer. Or something. Can someone with know how elaborate on what exactly this means, in practical terms? What should someone do in the U.K.? Still remain silent?

The US was founded by people who felt they were oppressed in Britain. There's a handy chart at the bottom of this web page that explains the differences: https://prestonbyrne.com/2016/01/06/uk-us-comparison/
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