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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

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Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#131

Post by solotronics »

jdkee wrote: post #90
leggomylibro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience. Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, the…

I will respond point-by-point to your claims. "It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience." If you do not admit anything, your statements cannot be used against you in court since you did not admit anything. And how do you tell…

I always say politely "I respectfully decline to answer questions." I never make it a machismo contest or get upset, but sometimes I have to repeat that a few times. Also super important "I decline a search of my vehicle and person as a matter of principal."

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#132

Post by jlgaddis »

mirimir wrote: post #75
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> "These aren't my pants" I'd love to hear the context for that one :)

Here's an "unusual" one I read about recently:

> He denied having any ID, claimed he could not remember his Social Security umber, and said his name was “Mr. Horrell.”

> After police found a photo ID in the vehicle, he claimed the person pictured was his “identical cousin.”

---

He was arrested and charged with "privacy invasion and refusal to identify himself". He was acquitted of the former and convicted of the latter -- only to have it later overturned.

So, in this particular case, I suppose he won.

[0]: https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/24168-court-refusa...

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#133

Post by newguy1234 »

slumdev wrote: post #11

We live in a police state. If you're not an attorney (or as well versed in law as the attorney in the video), your best bet is usually to be friendly and comply. You comply because they're allowed to lie to you, they're allowed to search you with very little reason, and they're allowed to arrest you using circumstances and behaviors that they knowingly and purposefully antagonize out of you. And this is how freedom d…

Let them violate your rights so you can sue them.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#134

Post by fouc »

bsanr2 wrote: post #113
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #17

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

I'm still unclear on what to do when a police officer has demonstrated intent to hurt or kill you, despite your cooperation.

>Police have a tough job. They are on the lookout for any sign of danger. Make it clear that you are a sane, reasonable person. Keep your hands visible at all times. Avoid the element of surprise.

> If you have any weapons or potentially dangerous items on you, keep your hands visible at all times and inform the officer. Inform the officer of your every move, if you need to reach for anything (your identification, your registration, etc.).

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#135

Post by newguy1234 »

catalogia wrote: post #9
d1zzy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that is it reasonable to do as an immigrant? Aren't police allowed too search all sorts of things with easy excuse? My refusal is a form of escalation especially since they can arrest me on whatever, then let me go, and that alone could jeopardize my immigration status (all those visa questionnaires starting with "have you ever been arrested").

If you consent to the search, what's to say they don't hose you anyway?

nothing

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#136

Post by bsanr2 »

fouc wrote: post #134
bsanr2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still unclear on what to do when a police officer has demonstrated intent to hurt or kill you, despite your cooperation.

>Police have a tough job. They are on the lookout for any sign of danger. Make it clear that you are a sane, reasonable person. Keep your hands visible at all times. Avoid the element of surprise. > If you have any weapons or potentially dangerous items on you, keep your hands visible at all times and inform the officer. Inform the officer of your every move, if you need to reach for anything (your identification, yo…

I'm still unclear on what to do when a police officer has demonstrated intent to hurt or kill you, despite your cooperation.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#137

Post by thephyber »

iudqnolq wrote: post #65
leggomylibro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just that a certain type of officer is usually eager to catch you in a lie; it gives them leverage, and it often flusters people into saying things that they didn't mean to. You also don't want, "...and they lied to me about it" to show up in future discussions. Ideally you would simply never speak with a police officer. But this is a stressful and unwanted situation that we're talking about, and most people (my…

Fair point. I personally think I would assert my rights as soon as I was asked a question like that, if I hadn't already. My point was basically if it occurs to you that you maybe should use some intenet advice in this encounter with a police officer that's a red flag that you should stop talking. If you get flustered and forget neither of our advice will help.

> I would assert my rights as soon as I was asked a question like that

I think everyone would like to think that they would be able to identify when the important questioning starts, but I don't think you usually notice it until you are partway through the line of questioning that the officer cares about.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#138

Post by solotronics »

catalogia wrote: post #50
SamReidHughes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.

I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!

Taking a step back and looking at the situation there really should be a way to "opt out" and still physically be in some part of the country. By that I mean opt out of taxes, any and all civil services, and public use things, basically everything that taxes pay for. There might have to be a zone of the country designated for this for "self sufficient community". Thinking about it Amish are already kind of this way already.

I'm not saying you should be exempt from laws but there should be some legal way to opt out of the system, as a safety valve at least.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#139

Post by dreamcompiler »

sterlind wrote: post #76
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that entering a plea doesn't count as testimony, thus isnt subject to perjury laws. Most of my cases were plea deals before trial, or were cases where the defendant did not testify. Saying "not guilty" also doesn't necessarily mean you didn't do anything, you may honestly believe at that point, and make the argument, that the thing you did was not illegal.

What about Alford pleas? I thought they existed so that you could reserve the right to appeal or avoid a civil action by avoiding an admission of guilt while acknowledging that you will likely be convicted.

IANAL but from what my lawyer friends have told me an Alford plea is practically the same as a guilty plea for purposes of appeal. In other words, it's very difficult to appeal an Alford plea. Seek legal advice before considering an Alford plea.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#140

Post by paranoidrobot »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #99
paranoidrobot wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries, the answers get really complicated, really quickly, and can vary based on location and other factors. For instance in NSW Australia, you may be cautioned by police that “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say will be taken down and may be used in evidence against you. It may harm your defence if you fail to mention something now which you later rely on in court.” [1][2] The impact…

The Interview is a great movie about this, with Russell Crowe and Hugo Weaving.

I'm not sure I'm following this comment.

The only movie I can find with both of those actors in it is Proof[1] from 1991, and it doesn't seem to be about anything to do with law enforcement/not speaking to police/right to silence.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102721/

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