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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

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Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#121

Post by wyclif »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #79

So on the hacker news front page today: Colleges are closing because they're to expensive What to do if you're stopped by police The Top 10 books include 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 all we need is something about medical insurance sending people broke and the ever present incarceration rate. You guys should really fix this (not an American), its not that hard.

I get what you're saying and I'm sympathetic to it— a lot of the HN user base is outside the USA. I think there should be more differentiation of USA-specific content in titles and such.

But I think the assumption of YCombinator and HN is that since so much of what is under discussion here is SV related, then readers should assume it's USA-specific unless stated otherwise.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#122

Post by wavefunction »

jlgaddis wrote: post #114
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #17

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

In the State of Indiana, where I reside, > A person who: > (1) gives a false report of the commission of a crime or gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false; > ... > knowing the report or information to be false; commits false informing [0] I've omitted (for brevity) several other things that also make a person guilty of this par…

Yeah but if you're being pulled over for illegitimate reasons none of that technically applies. If it goes to court and it's your word against the police's then you are at a potential disadvantage, unless you run into a jury of your fellow proletariat.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#123

Post by bsanr2 »

mikorym wrote: post #101
mcny wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never works. I was driving my friend’s car. I had a tire burst on me. I pulled over to the side of the road. Cops showed up in a few minutes and charged me with reckless driving. Made me take three different breathalyzers. I hadn’t been drinking so obviously it showed “well below the legal limit”. But my friend apparently had an empty beer can in the back. You can never say it wasn’t yours, apparently. In any case, p…

Is it illegal to have an empty beer can in your car? A couple of German exchange students once told me that you can drink in a car while the car is moving as long as the driver doesn't drink anything.

You have to understand, much of he law that pertains to using a motor vehicle in the US is a pretense to legitimize traffic stops, which are then used for some other purpose (mostly busting drivers for more serious crimes, or else extracting fines from out-of-towners/minorities).

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#124

Post by wavefunction »

jdoliner wrote: post #10

Every time something like this comes up I'm reminded of one time I was stopped by a police officer walking down the street. I felt a tap on my shoulder, turned around and was greeted by an officer in uniform, I wracked my brain trying to remember what I'd read on the internet about talking to the police and was just about to blurt out "Am I under arrest or am I free to go officer?" When he told me: "You dropped your…

You're pretty lucky, I was held at gunpoint for a bit because I was in the vicinity of some reported gunshots many years ago. >we were just smoking weed and drinking tho and lucked out with 1/2 the cops

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#125

Post by lancefisher »

Don’t let them in without a warrant, but perhaps don’t even open the door. A friend of mine had a noise complaint called in on him. They just didn’t open the door when the cop showed up. He eventually went away. Not sure how often it works, but I found it hilarious.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#126

Post by wavefunction »

kjs3 wrote: post #115
catalogia wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!

I saw someone do that at a protest and the officer said "I don't see any fringed flags so why don't I take you into custody until the Supreme Court rules". Amazingly, that deescalated the whole thing...apparently scrutiny isn't something Sovereign Citizens are big on.

imagine the sovereign citizen that sets a precedent for the rest of them >even though the precedents exist and apply to all of us already

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#127

Post by jlgaddis »

chrisseaton wrote: post #34
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> Lying in court is always* illegal. So if you plead not guilty to some crime, and they find you guilty, do you get prosecuted for lying in court with your plead as well as for the original crime?

Pleading isn't considered "testimonial".

Typically, one is only "sworn in" prior to giving testimony.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#128

Post by kjs3 »

wavefunction wrote: post #126
kjs3 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw someone do that at a protest and the officer said "I don't see any fringed flags so why don't I take you into custody until the Supreme Court rules". Amazingly, that deescalated the whole thing...apparently scrutiny isn't something Sovereign Citizens are big on.

imagine the sovereign citizen that sets a precedent for the rest of them >even though the precedents exist and apply to all of us already

I imagine the precedent being set is all the contrived prattle the sovereign citizen folks spew (admiralty courts!) being comprehensively dismissed at one time. Be careful what you wish for.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#129

Post by dreamcompiler »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #17

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

Were you a federal, state, or local cop? Lying to a federal officer is a felony. Lying to a local cop can be less of a problem, but the feds can even make that a big deal if the entity being lied to receives federal funding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#130

Post by thephyber »

mirimir wrote: post #94
jdkee wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United... .

I guess. So what, cops are coached to ask to help fund the department? If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it?

> If you say "yes", they'll just confiscate it?

Slightly more complicated, but not by much. It's not clear to me whether not talking versus explaining the situation would help or hurt your chances of keeping your money, but Civil Asset Forfeiture seems counter to the rest of the ideals of the US judicial system.

They need to be able to say it is "more likely than not" related to a crime. If there is a hint of weed in the air, the officer claims your pupils are slightly dilated, and they notice a lighter and a generic plastic baggie in the car, that might be enough to be able to confiscate the cash in your vehicle and the vehicle itself. The "hint of weed in the air" and "dilated pupils" are subjective and leave no physical evidence. The lighter+baggie aren't exclusive to marijuana, but they are considered paraphernalia. Also, having more than a few hundred/thousand USD cash has been considered more evidence of a crime in past cases (although I don't see how it could be).

And remember that there's probably a reason why you were approached by the officer, so they (or a prosecutor, if you've been arrested) will likely threaten you with more charges if you don't sign a waiver[1] or just lighten your charge sheet if you agree not to challenge the forfeiture.

And cash+vehicle confiscations usually happen to people driving through other states, so it's hard to get legal representation and it's usually pretty difficult to coordinate a legal case from out of state.

> When out-of-town drivers who felt victimized by a Tenaha forfeiture called local lawyers for help, their business wasn’t always welcomed. “That’d be like kicking a basket of rattlesnakes,” one defense lawyer warned a forfeiture target.[1]

Everything about Civil Asset Forfeiture has a bad smell. I wish we would just roll it back. It's a perversion of justice to allow the same government organizations who confiscate property to profit from the confiscations.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/08/12/taken

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