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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

cassandraxia.com

111–120 of 194 posts

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#111
post #41
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

She lied to federal investigators. That's illegal. Lying to local or state police, not so much.

Since local or state don't prosecute securities violations, yeah, I guess your right. But there are perjuries that can be committed at the local level, depending on the jurisdiction. Don't assume you can blow smoke and get away with it.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it illegal to have an empty beer can in your car? A couple of German exchange students once told me that you can drink in a car while the car is moving as long as the driver doesn't drink anything.

In the US, it is.

Yea...US DUI laws are "interesting". I make every effort to not drink and drive, but I definitely don't let anyone in a car I'm driving have an open drink. I've seen way to many 'you just handed your drink to the guy in the back seat' scenes to risk that.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#113

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

I'm still unclear on what to do when a police officer has demonstrated intent to hurt or kill you, despite your cooperation.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#114

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

In the State of Indiana, where I reside,

> A person who:

> (1) gives a false report of the commission of a crime or gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false;

> ...

> knowing the report or information to be false; commits false informing [0]

I've omitted (for brevity) several other things that also make a person guilty of this particular crime but read (1) again and think about how absolutely vague that sentence really is:

> gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false;

(Note that, here, both making a "false identity statement" and "assisting a criminal" are completely separate crimes; the above simply regards any "false information", generally.)

Granted, a prosecutor likely wouldn't bother wasting his time and the government's money to charge you over some inconsequential, petty lie but that might not stop a police officer from arresting you and making you spend a day or two in jail over it -- especially if he's having a bad day or you've done something to piss him off. Is that really a chance you want to take?

Personally, I feel that the best ("smartest") thing one can say when such an "opportunity" arises is absolutely nothing. To paraphrase Proverbs (17:28), "Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise." [1]

[0]: Indiana Code, Title 35, Article 44.1, Chapter 2, Section 3

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.

I know right? He didn't even cite maritime law and claim to be 'traveling'!

I saw someone do that at a protest and the officer said "I don't see any fringed flags so why don't I take you into custody until the Supreme Court rules". Amazingly, that deescalated the whole thing...apparently scrutiny isn't something Sovereign Citizens are big on.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#116

> "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to see a lawyer." On TV shows, the guy would then call his lawyer, who is under a retainer or something. The lawyer has all the context on exactly what's going on, and tells him exactly what to do, and he gets off free. But as someone who doesn't have a lawyer, what exactly happens if and when the cop agrees to this? Are they obligated to provide me with a lawyer? Or do I need…

Anything you say after "I want a lawyer" isn't admissable in court. A smart cop would end their questioning there.

I'm assuming you aren't a lawyer. Or are a really bad one.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#117
post #77

Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.

Unfortunately, where I live (Japan), asserting your rights and refusing a search is seen as probable cause. "If you were innocent you would just consent to the search" is how the thinking goes.

A very Asian mentality, this (I'm living in SE Asia). Conformity and obedience are strongly-held cultural values.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#118
post #102

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

You're not the cops I've dealt with but thanks for being good sports when I go hard on you guys when you falsely arrest me and stuff. Eventually the realization dawns that I am rich and will fight back (I don't look it, drive an old car, wear old clothes) and magically the charges go away. Occasionally, I have to prove one of you perjured yourself.

This makes me wonder how much of legal decision-making is based on the actual law and the arguments being made, and how much is based on one's adherence to proper "courtroom culture" demonstrating that you're sophisticated enough to warrant bargaining with, rather than dictated to.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#120
post #2

I really appreciate something more like this, with more countries included other than USA, like: India / China / Russia

Russia: ianal and giving advices is a “bear’s service” (making it only worse for you), but I can share my knowledge on interacting with the police.

First thing is we here don’t have many guns and the status quo it’s not a crime to touch or bad manner the policeman (while not recommended, they can turn it against you easily at will). Second thing is you usually want to know what the case really is, and what they know and think in general, so “remaining silent” may play against you. How it works: you get a sudden call, “hey wruza it’s you? Uhm maybe not, who’s asking? It’s detective Borisov, can you please meet me at my office here I have questions”. That’s it. You don’t get more info over the phone and if you ignore, you may get in a unknown trouble, even if they decide to not force you later in their office (it is not a crime to not go there, but they can give you a free mandatory ride if necessary). If you ignore or “remain silent” from the doorstep, you’re simply playing a blind hand against something serious. You’re innocent until guilty, so you better collect/ensure your own evidence, since it tends to decay with time.

Fighting and resisting (injuring even slightly) the police is a crime, but chances to get shot are minuscle compared to US. Gun rules are strict for them too, and even in a dangerous situation they don’t shoot an entire fucking clip into you, as youtube usually shows for US. YT search for “Полиция застрелила” (graphic content warning). It is usually few minutes of open and/or armed aggression against a cop before he decides to pull a gun. Each shot is a hard paperwork and a risk of losing their job or freedom.

Another big difference is that documents and witnessing is everything, words are nothing. You have to be damn sure that the protocol contains your words as you said it and as they asked, not rephrased or manipulated. Having a bad memory doesn’t count as a lie or justice/investigation obstruction, but a judge may find it strange that you recall everything except that one day or event.

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