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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

cassandraxia.com

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Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rule of thumb is to treat cops the way I'd like to be treated if I was in their shoes. Which is to say, with a pleasant but firm demeanor. I don't consent to searches and I don't volunteer much of any information, but I treat them as respectfully as I'd treat any other stranger I encountered. Pleasant smiles, "have a nice day", etc. The same as I'd treat a retail worker. My brother pulled the "AM I BEING DETAINED"…

What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.

[deleted]

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#52
post #11

We live in a police state. If you're not an attorney (or as well versed in law as the attorney in the video), your best bet is usually to be friendly and comply. You comply because they're allowed to lie to you, they're allowed to search you with very little reason, and they're allowed to arrest you using circumstances and behaviors that they knowingly and purposefully antagonize out of you. And this is how freedom d…

And don't forget, in the USA, complying with requests given by a person carrying a gun and a license to kill you, is considered freely given consent that waives your rights.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#53

According to lawyers I’ve spoken to in the U.K., your refusal to talk to the police is admissible as ... it’s somehow admissible in court. The prosecutor is allowed to tell a jury that it’s suspect you didn’t want to talk to the cops without a lawyer. Or something. Can someone with know how elaborate on what exactly this means, in practical terms? What should someone do in the U.K.? Still remain silent?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an... elaborates on the special rules you've alluded to, which apply in certain situations in England and Wales. Unfortunately, the answer to "what should someone do if questioned by police" is still "it depends."

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#55
post #6
post #4

TL;DR: * Act like a normal, sensible person. Don't try to provoke them, and don't give them any reason to escalate the encounter. * Don't allow police in your home without a warrant. * Affirmatively deny consent for searches. This includes your home, car, and personal belongings. * Assert your right to remain silent. Unless you're reporting a crime where you're the victim (and, sometimes, even then), you should only…

> Act like a normal, sensible person. Don't try to provoke them, and don't give them any reason to escalate the encounter. The problem is asserting your rights and not acting like a docile thankful citizen can get treated as escalation in and of itself.

It's absolutely true and unfair that getting upset at your predicament can move used an excuse to harm you.

That's why you have to act like a sensible, docile, thankful citizen who also asserts your rights. Do not act "normal". Normal gets you hurt.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#56

Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct s…

The thing is, you shouldn't be getting to the stage when you say "not that I can think of" because you shouldn't ever talk to an officer other than to answer basic questions about your name, etc.

[deleted]

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#57

Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.

The problem is if you have bird poop on the hood, donut crumbs on the floor, your passenger was recently drywalling, or you have vitamins, breath mints, or powdered milk on you then you might end up spending the night in jail. Those are all real items that really got people arrested.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evj89n/this-dollar2-test-...

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

“As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over.” I wish that was the case, but as a LEO yourself you have to be aware that that’s absolutely untrue. Oh neat, there’s a whole Wikipedia article about it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury I want to assume good faith and positive intent, but I have to be honest that it really strains credulity…

From your link:

"A common trope amongst police officers in the United States is the aphorism: "If you lie, you die." This is indicative of the essential need for trustworthiness in the job—police officers are society's observers, enforcers and professional witnesses—and a warning that any deliberate falsehood can undermine the officer's continued usefulness, resulting in termination. Such terminations have been judicially enforced.[20]"

I personally know of 3 cops who lost their job for dishonesty. It's not even stuff like planting drugs, but turning in fake tickets (court copies never submitted, just office copies).

Further, look up the Brady List. In everywhere I've worked, if you're on it, the Commonwealth's Attorney will not take your cases. Period. If your lawyer loses a case where the witness is a cop who has lied intentionally on record, you have a crappy lawyer or a terribly corrupt judge AND jury

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#59
post #47

Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct s…

“ One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways.” This is really bad advice. You need to re-watch the video you alluded to in your first pa…

It's a fair point, but I'm kind of getting tired of responding to it. I think that such an absolutist stance can be more harmful than helpful in some situations, and that view is backed by my anecdotal but not-insignificant experience.

Some officers do not care about your rights or the law, and if you demand a lawyer when they ask how much cash is in the vehicle after they pull you over for doing 37 in a 35 zone, then you and your lawyer are going to spend a little while dealing with the matter.

Whereas if you give nothing away while remaining polite and courteous and aware that you are probably being lied to, you might drive off with a warning. You might still need to fall back to "am I being detained", but you might not. Sometimes you simply can't completely avoid a conversation, especially when the other party can physically compel you and make up an excuse later.

There is no universal good advice for such difficult and varied situations, and acting as though there is doesn't do anyone any favors. That's why I like this article and commented on it; the author provides useful knowledge and references without being overly prescriptive.

And incidentally, the absolutist "never speak at all" part of the James Duane talk comes with the caveat, "if you are being suspected of a serious crime". The article seems to be more about officer-knocks-on-your-door or traffic stop sort of situations.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#60

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

A caveat to lying: even if your particular jurisdiction doesn't criminalize lying to law enforcement, it can result in a truly devastating jury instruction. The judge will literally instruct the jury "It is reasonable to infer that an innocent person does not usually find it necessary to invent or fabricate an explanation or statement..."

https://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/sites/ca3/files/2013%20Chapter%...

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