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What to do if you’re stopped by the police

cassandraxia.com

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Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#31

Post by CodeAndCuffs »

cassbot wrote: post #29
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #17

Former cop here. The article states "You cannot lie to the police". This is, generally, incorrect. Some jurisdictions may have some specific law, but other than certain exceptions, lying has no general consequence. If it did, there would be a lot more charges against pretty much everyone who has been arrested. In my experience, people will lie about stuff that's not even relevant, or helpful to them. Exceptions inclu…

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told.

As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimony on every case forever, making you useless. No matter how bad you screw up as a cop, the number 1 rule is don't lie about it in court.

*Maybe not in some jurisdictions? But realistically yeah, always

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#32

Post by mantap »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #7

According to lawyers I’ve spoken to in the U.K., your refusal to talk to the police is admissible as ... it’s somehow admissible in court. The prosecutor is allowed to tell a jury that it’s suspect you didn’t want to talk to the cops without a lawyer. Or something. Can someone with know how elaborate on what exactly this means, in practical terms? What should someone do in the U.K.? Still remain silent?

Your best bet is to remain silent unless your solicitor tells you overwise. If you are arrested in the UK you have a right to legal advice from the "duty solicitor".

Your refusal to speak to police can't be the only evidence against you. Silence is not a confession. It merely means that when you're in court the prosecution may make something of the fact that you didn't say anything to the police. They may claim that your testimony is less credible than it would have been. But it's up to the jury whether or not they agree with that. It is much more important what you say in court.

On the other hand, if you do speak to the police that may well be used against you as well, indeed it may be the main evidence if you unintentionally admit to a crime that you didn't know you committed, or you may provide crucial evidence for one aspect of a crime (such as intention) that would otherwise be difficult for them to prove.

If you do say something to police, a transcript will be made and it probably will be available to the jury. They will compare what you said to the police to what you said in court. Your court date may be a long time from your police interview. So you'd better be sure you can reproduce your answers months into the future.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#33

Post by vondur »

dmalvarado wrote: post #13

Main problem with this advice is, I can either assert my rights on principle, be detained, possibly held in lockup, deal with the lawyers and courts... Or I can just let them look in my empty trunk. I say this with full awareness of how fucked up it is, but your bet is to be white and polite.

Ha, many years ago while I was playing in a punk band at a house party that was broken up by the police. Our equipment was in the house and we wanted to get it and leave, but the police weren’t letting anyone back in the house. So the rest of the band members volunteered me (the white guy) to ask the officer if we could get our equipment from the house. Well, apparently the officer was not in a good mood and told me to step the f back as he hit me with his baton across my chest. Of course the other band members laughed at me when I came back with his answer. Taught me a lesson.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#34

Post by chrisseaton »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31
cassbot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> Lying in court is always* illegal.

So if you plead not guilty to some crime, and they find you guilty, do you get prosecuted for lying in court with your plead as well as for the original crime?

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#35

Post by CodeAndCuffs »

chrisseaton wrote: post #34
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> Lying in court is always* illegal. So if you plead not guilty to some crime, and they find you guilty, do you get prosecuted for lying in court with your plead as well as for the original crime?

I believe that entering a plea doesn't count as testimony, thus isnt subject to perjury laws. Most of my cases were plea deals before trial, or were cases where the defendant did not testify. Saying "not guilty" also doesn't necessarily mean you didn't do anything, you may honestly believe at that point, and make the argument, that the thing you did was not illegal.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#36

Post by leggomylibro »

iudqnolq wrote: post #24
leggomylibro wrote: post #14

Good advice, and that "Don't Talk to the Police" video is a classic must-watch for everyone who comes of age in the US. One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct s…

> One other thing which goes along with being polite and courteous, never lie outright to an officer. Use weasel words like, "not that I can think of" or, "I'm not sure why you would think that." That might sound suspicious at first glance, but they'll assume in the moment that just about any direct statement is a lie, anyways. If you're thinking about clever hacks to use when you're talking to the police you're doin…

It's just that a certain type of officer is usually eager to catch you in a lie; it gives them leverage, and it often flusters people into saying things that they didn't mean to. You also don't want, "...and they lied to me about it" to show up in future discussions.

Ideally you would simply never speak with a police officer. But this is a stressful and unwanted situation that we're talking about, and most people (myself certainly included) aren't going to know how to assert every one of their rights that are relevant to a situation in that stressful moment. It's fairly easy to remember to avoid giving the officers anything to work with, though.

But you make a good point, I'm not a lawyer and I only speak from anecdotal experience.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#37

Post by SamReidHughes »

catalogia wrote: post #15
jdoliner wrote: post #10

Every time something like this comes up I'm reminded of one time I was stopped by a police officer walking down the street. I felt a tap on my shoulder, turned around and was greeted by an officer in uniform, I wracked my brain trying to remember what I'd read on the internet about talking to the police and was just about to blurt out "Am I under arrest or am I free to go officer?" When he told me: "You dropped your…

My rule of thumb is to treat cops the way I'd like to be treated if I was in their shoes. Which is to say, with a pleasant but firm demeanor. I don't consent to searches and I don't volunteer much of any information, but I treat them as respectfully as I'd treat any other stranger I encountered. Pleasant smiles, "have a nice day", etc. The same as I'd treat a retail worker. My brother pulled the "AM I BEING DETAINED"…

What an amateur. Your brother should have told the officer his traffic stop was unconstitional, under the 1st amendment, because his driving is a form of self-expression.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#38

Post by dsfyu404ed »

This article is a great damage control policy. You should be able to avoid getting screwed by following its advice.

That said, this is a complex topic and an article of that length can only cover so much. There's a lot of nuance in these kinds of things (human interaction is complex) and by behaving as the situation demands an not coming off as one of those sovereign citizen types you can turn a lot of $50 "contempt of cop while having a tail light out" tickets into warnings without giving up your rights.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#39

Post by foobarian »

chrisseaton wrote: post #34
CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

> Lying in court is always* illegal. So if you plead not guilty to some crime, and they find you guilty, do you get prosecuted for lying in court with your plead as well as for the original crime?

A plea is not a statement of fact, is it? It's your opinion and true by definition.

Re: What to do if you’re stopped by the police

#40

Post by iron0013 »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #31
cassbot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but my understanding was that lying to the police opens you up to obstruction of justice charges -- or perjury. For instance, I learned from law professor James Duane's video that Martha Stewart would have completely avoided prison time if she had not lied to investigators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&feature=emb_titl...

Lying in court is always* illegal. Lying in general, e.g "I didn't steal anything", "I only had 2 beers", "These aren't my pants", is not inherently illegal. All of these are lies I've been told. As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over. Any defense attorney can bring that one time you got caught lying up in court, discounting your entire testimon…

“As a cop, if you get caught lying, i.e. intentionally false testimony in court, your career is effectively over.”

I wish that was the case, but as a LEO yourself you have to be aware that that’s absolutely untrue.

Oh neat, there’s a whole Wikipedia article about it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_perjury

I want to assume good faith and positive intent, but I have to be honest that it really strains credulity that you really believed that cops would refrain from committing perjury for fear of suffering professional consequences

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