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Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

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Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#111
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they’re not inflicting any real violence in the process Are you suggesting violence can be only physical in nature? Even if you aren't, your choice of the word violence is intentional because you want to avoid words like "harm" which more fully capture the socioeconomic implications of being fired without due cause from a position which your livelihood depends on. In an ideal world, nation states would provide UBI…

Violence is inherently physical. It is the forceful physical violation of one’s person or property. Trying to expand the definition of “violence” beyond this scope dilutes its meaning beyond recognition and usefulness. However, I will agree it is harmful when a supplier terminates its services, particularly so if you were dependent on that supplier. People make their own choices about who to do business with and how…

You're honing in on a specific definition of violence, ignoring its historic colloquial usages.

People make their own choices about who to do business with and how to go about their business

More attempts to pin the narrative as a business transaction while ignoring the larger implications of phenomena such as deplatformization in public forums operated by unscrupulous corporations who control access to their audiences of millions.

The lesson to take away here isn’t that YouTube should be regulated like some kind of utility and to take away their ability to terminate relations with producers, but that you shouldn’t be so thoroughly dependent on one supplier for your business that it is financially ruinous to lose their services.

Try applying that same logic to someone who is stuck in an abusive relationship, deprived of the resources needed to secure their financial and emotional independence. We shouldn't regulate domestic abuse, because people should not be so thoroughly dependent on one person for their welfare. It's their choice.

Information is the currency of modern society. In a two-decade span we've allowed extreme centralization and gatekeeping of digital information, placing control of its flow into the hands of a dozen or two corporations.

Twenty years ago, decentralization was alive and well and if a community of 50-100 people had a hardass for an admin, that was fine, because there were often plenty of other communities of similar caliber elsewhere for popular topics.

Now we have things like reddit. "Decentralized", but communities are constantly plagued by misguided, ill-informed decisions handed down from the guy upstairs. Entire communities of thousands of people are destroyed overnight. But where else will they go? No one registers for forums anymore, reddit is in the top 20 most popular websites in the world with 300 million users. That's an entire country.

YouTube shares a similar tale. Whether you would like to admit it or not, what these large companies in positions of power are doing today is the equivalent of mass censorship, restriction of speech, and ideological persecution. And these platforms often support user-created censorship as well.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but what about companies that are so large that they effectively control the labor market There is no such company in the world, and if there was, it would almost certainly be an illegal monopoly. All but one of the rest of your theories are illegal everywhere, and the last one is illegal in many places (or at lease unenforceable). If you have a problem with companies breaking the law, then you have a problem with…

You're wrong. Look up noncompetes in the US. The American rule of costs means it doesn't matter if it's not enforceable (which actually it often is). They still have a cause of action to destroy you by the mere act of dragging you through court (and the associated legal costs). And most lowly employees aren't aware of, or willing to test, the enforceability when they get threatened by their ex employer. The balance o…

Non-competes was the only part of his post that had any merit. But read my comment again, I’m not wrong.

> All but one of the rest of your theories are illegal everywhere, and the last one is illegal in many places (or at lease unenforceable).

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. Say you have built up a following of people over many years and you are making thousands of dollars a month from YouTube, and they they decide to shut you down overnight, I bet it's going to feel like violence when it comes time to pay bills and you no longer have any of that income yo…

>Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. The thing is, no company is taking away a creator's right to their living. They may take away the opportunity to make a living on that company's platform, but there's a distinct difference. YouTube (or Twitch, etc) are providing a service to content creators, that service being hostin…

Should this, should that. I have heard this so many times. If you are a app developer and became successful on the Google playstore, but not on iTunes store then who are you to say that you should never put all your eggs into a single basket. This would never be a deliberate choice. Fact is, that many business lost everything due dragonic decisions made by big tech companies. Unacceptable. That's why those companies need to be split up. Regions like Europe need to restrict massive US invasion and come up with their own alternatives.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#115

Problem is that states usually have constitutional safeguards that keep a safe balance of power between citizen and state. Not so with these companies. Step out of line and they can unperson you like that, and you can't vote on their leadership. And increasingly entire livelihoods and social existences are tied into them. This is why you're seeing states start to get so aggressive with them. The EU fining billions ou…

Corporate governance mimics military juntas or dictatorships. I just throw my proxy ballots in the trash. They are worthless.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#116
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. Say you have built up a following of people over many years and you are making thousands of dollars a month from YouTube, and they they decide to shut you down overnight, I bet it's going to feel like violence when it comes time to pay bills and you no longer have any of that income yo…

Shift your perspective. YouTube is a video distribution service provider and one of many ways to publish a video. You can choose to publish on YouTube, but you don’t have the right to compel YouTube to do business with you anymore than a coffee shop has a right to compel their current coffee roaster to do business with them. If YouTube cancels their contract with you, they’ve taken away your ability to make a living…

Maybe we should make you persona non grata at the three largest supermarket chains in your area, plus Walmart and Amazon. You can get your meals at Burger King and 7-11.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. The thing is, no company is taking away a creator's right to their living. They may take away the opportunity to make a living on that company's platform, but there's a distinct difference. YouTube (or Twitch, etc) are providing a service to content creators, that service being hostin…

Should this, should that. I have heard this so many times. If you are a app developer and became successful on the Google playstore, but not on iTunes store then who are you to say that you should never put all your eggs into a single basket. This would never be a deliberate choice. Fact is, that many business lost everything due dragonic decisions made by big tech companies. Unacceptable. That's why those companies…

Even if YouTube (or the Play Store) was its own entity, they can still prevent you from publishing on their platforms on a whim. You solve nothing by breaking them up.

Don’t hold your breath on Europe coming up with dominant consumer tech anytime soon.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. The thing is, no company is taking away a creator's right to their living. They may take away the opportunity to make a living on that company's platform, but there's a distinct difference. YouTube (or Twitch, etc) are providing a service to content creators, that service being hostin…

> economic violence This construction is linguistic violence!

Please stop attacking me with your exclamatory violence.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#119
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That money in the bank account is yours, unless seized through a legal process. And this is because through the centuries we have enacted enough laws to deter private banking companies from messing with our money. If left to their own devices, we would have DRM-ed money, random service terminations, unexplained money loses, etc. We just need to extend these rights and safeties to other spheres of our digital proper…

Yes, but a bank can still terminate its business with you. It just has to return your money to you. Now if you’re suggesting we have a law that companies which hold our data have to return our data when they terminate their business relationship with us, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree.

The legal obligations of a bank towards its clients generally extend way beyond your example, depending on the country, but yes, returning the client belongings upon termination of the relationship should be a basic right mandated by law. I think it is profoundly absurd that we are renouncing hard-fought consumer rights just because business is now being conducted electronically. If the letter of the law no longer matches the spirit, we should update the letter, not lose the spirit.

Re: Tech giants have as much money and influence as nations

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. Say you have built up a following of people over many years and you are making thousands of dollars a month from YouTube, and they they decide to shut you down overnight, I bet it's going to feel like violence when it comes time to pay bills and you no longer have any of that income yo…

>Taking away somebody's right to make a living with their chosen profession or otherwise participate in commerce is economic violence. The thing is, no company is taking away a creator's right to their living. They may take away the opportunity to make a living on that company's platform, but there's a distinct difference. YouTube (or Twitch, etc) are providing a service to content creators, that service being hostin…

If a service provider has a dominant position, it is essentially taking away a right to make a living. Want someone to switch your car for a Yugo?
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