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Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

brookings.edu

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Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#11
post #5
post #2

Unemployment only measures persons in the workforce, not those who never had a job. Thus, the stats are further less rosy.

That is why we also track the labor force participation rate [0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

Unfortunately I don't think that number is saying much either because it does not track well why people are not participating.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#12
post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

Not always. Being in one of these low end jobs tends to beget staying in that low end job longer, making it more difficult to have the time to invest in getting a better job. Numerous studies have shown that giving people a bigger safety net may make them stay unemployed longer, but when they do get a job they end up making much more money and being happier overall.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#14
post #5
post #2

Unemployment only measures persons in the workforce, not those who never had a job. Thus, the stats are further less rosy.

That is why we also track the labor force participation rate [0]. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

I can’t tell from your comment but I’m not sure this is what you expect. This is not people who have never had a job. This is a (now politically motivated) estimate of the number of employable people. Subtle difference.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#15

I do not agree with that, having a job is always a good thing for mental health. It is always better than staying at home doing nothing.

A lot of people become unhappy with their jobs and develop mental health issues. Some people never recover from having worked in destructive work environments.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#16
post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

I think it's a stretch to say all jobs help mental status and self esteem.

I think the point of the article is that relying on low unemployment as a main proxy of the health of the economy and how the workforce is doing overall, while pushing economic policies that try to mainly optimize that number, misses some pretty big points.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#17
post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

Eventually you approach (modern) slavery though, and the transition is not black to white, but a continuous one. So your argument, without any qualifications, actually implies that (modern) slavery is not a problem. I hope it is obvious to you why that is a highly unreasonable argument.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#18

I do not agree with that, having a job is always a good thing for mental health. It is always better than staying at home doing nothing.

Having work one finds valuable is. Having a shitty mind numbing job is hell. Adam Smith wrote about it (paraphrasing) extreme division of labor will create servile, ignorant humans. IMO billionaires suffer from it too. Offloading so much real doing and learning while existing in the context of abstract decision maker. You think Bezos can do much more than validate or demean people around him? Bet he can barely rotate…

"In the progress of the division of labour, the employment of the far greater part of those who live by labour, that is, of the great body of the people, comes to be confined to a few very simple operations, frequently to one or two. But the understandings of the greater part of men are necessarily formed by their ordinary employments. The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects are perhaps always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become. The torpor of his mind renders him not only incapable of relishing or bearing a part in any rational conversation, but of conceiving any generous, noble, or tender sentiment, and consequently of forming any just judgment concerning many even of the ordinary duties of private life. Of the great and extensive interests of his country he is altogether incapable of judging, and unless very particular pains have been taken to render him otherwise, he is equally incapable of defending his country in war. The uniformity of his stationary life naturally corrupts the courage of his mind, and makes him regard with abhorrence the irregular, uncertain, and adventurous life of a soldier. It corrupts even the activity of his body, and renders him incapable of exerting his strength with vigour and perseverance in any other employment than that to which he has been bred. His dexterity at his own particular trade seems, in this manner, to be acquired at the expense of his intellectual, social, and martial virtues. But in every improved and civilised society this is the state into which the labouring poor, that is, the great body of the people, must necessarily fall, unless government takes some pains to prevent it."

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#19
post #12
post #7

Totally disagree. It's 1000000 times better than without a job, a job at least helps mental status and boost some esteem. Also it's 1000000000000 times better than living on welfare or food stamps. for himself/herself and for the society.

Not always. Being in one of these low end jobs tends to beget staying in that low end job longer, making it more difficult to have the time to invest in getting a better job. Numerous studies have shown that giving people a bigger safety net may make them stay unemployed longer, but when they do get a job they end up making much more money and being happier overall.

You are thinking of people who go to college or get some sort of official training. However, the best way to earn more money is to get on the job ladder and start learning skills. Once you have some experience it’s far easier to earn more. Putting people on welfare doesn’t help people learn skills.

Re: Low unemployment isn’t worth much if the jobs barely pay

#20

I do not agree with that, having a job is always a good thing for mental health. It is always better than staying at home doing nothing.

If you have to take a bus for an hour to get to your four-hour shift at a stressful minimum wage job, where your manager is abusive and the workplace is unsafe, your mental health may suffer.

Meaningful work, or contributing to the wellbeing of those around you -- that would be a worthwhile goal. Suffering just so your family isn't hungry is a harder sell.

Inevitably, someone will say they should just learn skills from the internet to improve their lot, and perhaps some will. I think most people on HN (especially me) are so insulated from the reality of working poverty that we just look for technical solutions. I wish there were some.

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