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Paris syndrome

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Re: Paris syndrome

#151

Post by jdietrich »

douglasmurray12 wrote: post #107
claudiawerner wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. Is there a limit at which you believe mass migration into France would be undesirable? Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. > what would a legitimate movement to argue for limiting mass migration look like It would exist in a time where mass immigration is causing the…

> Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. There is clearly more to it than just economic and population density reasons. Culture matters. Consider, for example, that female genital mutilation is now a European problem. Or that Europe today has de facto implemented Islamic bl…

You may wish to reflect for a moment on why Africa has 430 million French speakers.

Re: Paris syndrome

#152

Post by kmlx »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #62
bsaul wrote: post #7

let’s be honest. Paris center is really great, but all the rest is trash by any standard (not even the japanese one). And i’m not even talking about suburbs, which people coming from the airport must go through. People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size), public transport are a total trash, working only half the time correctly.. Restrooms makes us look like a thi…

Completely agree. I've been to both Paris and Tokyo in the past year. In Paris we took extreme precautions with our belongings and we still got pickpocket attempts on the subway (fortunately none successful). In Tokyo of course we just took zero precautions because crime against tourists is virtually unheard-of (with the possible exception of Roppongi after dark, where the level of caution you need is still 1/10 that…

tokyo is definitely one of the best cities in the world. i can only think of sidney as a competitor in quality of life. no european city comes close.

Re: Paris syndrome

#153

Post by asdff »

bsaul wrote: post #7

let’s be honest. Paris center is really great, but all the rest is trash by any standard (not even the japanese one). And i’m not even talking about suburbs, which people coming from the airport must go through. People are absolutely not what you’d expect french to look like ( and i’m not talking about size), public transport are a total trash, working only half the time correctly.. Restrooms makes us look like a thi…

Have you ever been to Los Angeles? I love it but it is pretty gritty. Poke around with street view. Paris is a utopia in comparison--the metro map looks like a kid scribbled with crayons there are so many lines. American standards are pretty low.

Re: Paris syndrome

#154

Post by jdietrich »

wozniacki wrote: post #59

Not to put too fine a point, but is this the Paris you've encountered?[1] [2] Do you expect others who've visited Paris to come away with quite a different perception, even being in the same places you were in or objectively no? [1] The Streets of Paris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Js8wntdk4 [2] Is My "Paris Streets" Video Fake News? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Iw1_Zakbb0

The 18th Arrondissement looks like the 18th Arrondissement. I am not exactly shocked. Paris is rather busy with being Paris; if it doesn't meet your expectations, that's very much your problem.

Re: Paris syndrome

#155

Post by ido »

amai wrote: post #70
julienchastang wrote: post #50

I am part Parisian. (I used to live there and my family is from the city and nice banlieue). I love Paris, but what shocks me every time I go back is the quantity of dog poop (and also trash) in the streets and the inability of city officials to do anything about it. Here are a few tips for visitors: - When interacting with locals, always start off by saying Bonjour Monsieur, Bonjour Madame. That will help disarm cra…

"I love Paris, but what shocks me every time I go back is the quantity of dog poop (and also trash) in the streets and the inability of city officials to do anything about it." Is the amount of dog poop in Paris even worse than in Berlin? I cannot imagine that.

As a Berliner, dog poop (like litter in general) is very localized. There are large parts of Berlin (especially in the south west) that are very clean and if you e.g. live in Zehlendorf and work in the nice/wealthy parts of Charlottenburg you will not be overwhelmed by dog poop and grime.

Re: Paris syndrome

#156

Post by elfexec »

newshorts wrote: post #90

Very interesting, I had the opposite effect. I grew up in a very “red” part of the US and was given a very negative view of the French (or anyone else for that matter). I was so surprised to find the people were friendly, kind and inviting. A small French restaurant even stayed open late because my friend and I had just arrived in Paris and had no idea of where to find food. The city struck me as beautiful. Everythin…

> I grew up in a very “red” part of the US and was given a very negative view of the French (or anyone else for that matter).

Why make it political? What does "red" have to do with it. American exceptionalism is an national traditional. Do you think all the movies and tv shows making fun of the french came from a very "red" part of the US? Last I check NY and LA weren't very "red".

> The city struck me as beautiful. Everything was so clean and manicured (my town by comparison was dirty, dusty and unkempt).

Are you sure it was paris and not another european city you were in? Parts of Paris is beautiful for sure, but I've never heard anyone describe it as "so clean and manicured". At least those aren't the words I'd use to describe Paris having visited it.

> (my town by comparison was dirty, dusty and unkempt). Paris destroyed my sense of exceptionalism.

If you were from a small town in a very "red" part of the US, any medium sized city anywhere would have cured you of your sense of exceptionalism.

Re: Paris syndrome

#157

Post by elfexec »

asdff wrote: post #149
briandear wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So clean and manicured? I am not sure what part of Paris you were in, but having lived in France for 4 years, “clean and manicured” is about the opposite of what reality is. Dog shit on side walks, people urinating in public, cars parking on sidewalks, crowded, often un-air conditioned subway trains packed with sweaty people, dingy hotel rooms, trash piled up on sidewalks, rats traveling in packs, pickpockets, prevai…

What you describe in the first paragraph accurately describes Beverly Hills. American cities are not spectacular, so with an American perspective, Paris is a big step up.

>American cities are not spectacular

Beverly Hills isn't a "city". NYC isn't spectacular?

> Paris is a big step up.

I didn't feel it was a big step up from NYC - especially given the hype that paris has.

Re: Paris syndrome

#158

Post by douglasmurray12 »

arvinsim wrote: post #119
douglasmurray12 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too much mass immigration to anywhere would be undesirable, but for economic and population density reasons. I am skeptical of the idea of the idea that culture is fixed and immutable. There is clearly more to it than just economic and population density reasons. Culture matters. Consider, for example, that female genital mutilation is now a European problem. Or that Europe today has de facto implemented Islamic bl…

> So mass immigration can clearly change society for the worse outside of simply economic and population density reasons. But it can also change for the better. His point is that culture is not fixed and immutable. Whether it changes for better or worse depends on circumstances.

But suppose that it is perceived by the public that the net benefit from mass immigration is negative. How should they organize into a political movement or even voice their concerns, such that they do not get accused of being racist, xenophobic, populist, fascist, far-right?

Re: Paris syndrome

#159

Post by dreamcompiler »

kmlx wrote: post #152
dreamcompiler wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I've been to both Paris and Tokyo in the past year. In Paris we took extreme precautions with our belongings and we still got pickpocket attempts on the subway (fortunately none successful). In Tokyo of course we just took zero precautions because crime against tourists is virtually unheard-of (with the possible exception of Roppongi after dark, where the level of caution you need is still 1/10 that…

tokyo is definitely one of the best cities in the world. i can only think of sidney as a competitor in quality of life. no european city comes close.

Osaka has a lot to be said for it too. It has as much culture as Tokyo but the pace and energy are dialed back a bit. There are also fewer English speakers and the signage doesn't use as much Romaji, so your Japanese skills need to be a little sharper.

Re: Paris syndrome

#160

Post by bsaul »

hodgesrm wrote: post #80
_Wintermute wrote: post #29

I've lived in a few big cities but Paris definitely is very different to the others. There are moments when it's like the depictions in the films: quiet boulevards lined with Haussmann apartments sitting ontop of quaint boulangeries. I think this is why it's such a shock when you're faced with the rest of it which is dirty, smelly, noisy, home to 10 million people filled with scam artists and impatient Parisians.

Paris reminds me a lot of San Francisco. Both have world class neighborhoods but also areas that are pretty awful (homelessness, crime, trash, etc.) Personally I find Paris very similar to navigate. The not-do-good parts do not seem much different from the Tenderloin in SF and require the same attention to surroundings.

I’ve also lived in SF and believe me, the problem is entirely different. It’s just a different scale.

We’re not talking about having « diverse neighborhoods » or « sketchy neighborhoods » ( it’s part of the fun of living in a big city). Actually i’ve lived a huge part of my life in those neighborhoods, and criminality isn’t such a big problem (although things are very very different if you’re a girl).

The most pressing matter for the country is the cultural gap between very large parts of the whole french population (not just a district or a city).

The country is currently facing an identity crisis and the fact that overtly racists political parties are close to winning every election should be a sign that something’s going really bad there.

Unfortunately the debate is completely crippled by people who refuse to address the issue like grown ups ( either by calling everyone a racist, or by actually being racist)

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