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Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

bloomberg.com

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Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#111

Post by Camillo »

danbolt wrote: post #53
phkahler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What are men doing if not working? On disability? Homeless? Retiring earlier? Some are living in their parents basement until they're 30 to 40. It has been hypothesized that with the breakdown of families in the US, men are giving up, and that includes efforts to build a stable foundation for their family. See MGTOW but dont read too much, it can be kind of depressing.

I agree with Esther Perel's thinking[1] that the next century is going to involve a broadening on what society deems a positive life is for straight, cis men. In the same way that we consider it acceptable for women to express themselves or live differently than the gender roles of the past, I think we'll start to do the same for men. I already see this with my millennial or genZ peers. It's not uncommon to read comm…

> It's not uncommon to read comments on Hacker News or twitter from men feeling that they seen as less valid for doing less traditional activities[2][3] (eg: caring for children, prioritizing their careers less, being less traditionally forward, etc.) and I think society is going to need to change to acknowledge this better for both men and women.

That is an interesting angle. What do you think is going to change, and what is going to cause it to change?

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#112

Post by anon9001 »

phkahler wrote: post #19
deeg wrote: post #3

I find this fairly astounding. The typical stay-at-home parent is the mother and while it's getting closer to parity I don't think it's anywhere near even. For that reason alone I would expect more men in the work force. What are men doing if not working? On disability? Homeless? Retiring earlier?

>> What are men doing if not working? On disability? Homeless? Retiring earlier? Some are living in their parents basement until they're 30 to 40. It has been hypothesized that with the breakdown of families in the US, men are giving up, and that includes efforts to build a stable foundation for their family. See MGTOW but dont read too much, it can be kind of depressing.

> Some are living in their parents basement until they're 30 to 40.

I understand this is considered a bad thing, and it makes sense at a societal level, but honestly it sounds like a pretty amazing life. Maybe that would have been boring and depressing pre-internet, but it seems pretty good now.

I know one dude who essentially grifted his way into the disability system, and I've watched him go from an anxious mess to a budding artist, literally living in his mom's basement. All he does is read the internet, take classes, and paint. His art keeps getting better. If he lives in his parent's basement for another decade, he might emerge as a great artist. Frankly, I'm kind of jealous.

The obvious down side is that he has a hard time finding a date, and family interaction is not optional. IMO those are both relatively minor penalties for a lifetime of freedom.

The real inexplicable thing here is how parents are letting this happen? I was never under any illusion that I'd be able to receive indefinite support from my parents, and society has given me every possible indication that this isn't an acceptable strategy.

Maybe we need an acceptable way for people who can't mentally handle work to be able to exist in society.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#113

Post by magduf »

watwut wrote: post #41
belorn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike this kind of cheap generalization which only look skin deep and don't even try to find common behavior between genders. Young men spend about an 2 hours on games per day, and the numbers for young women is much lower. Young women however spend about 2 hours more on their phones per day more than men. Something seems very similar here if we look at the two activities together rather then in isolation. I woul…

> I would guess the answer has something to do with inter-gender competition and status And simply socialization. Gaming is socialization for many male gamers - it is their primary or only social circle and friends. It is the main thing they talk about even in person (what tv used to be).

Exactly: this is what I've found with my younger coworkers. I played video games a lot when I was young, but it wasn't that much of a social thing because the internet wasn't commonly available (we had BBSes) and the games were all single-player DOS or console (NES/SNES) games. Now it seems video games are a social outlet for men under 30, and as you said it's what they talk about in person a lot too, unlike TV.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#114

Post by virtuous_signal »

watwut wrote: post #98
virtuous_signal wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This immediately raises several questions: 1) What are the legitimate concerns with only women teaching young children? 2) What is the evidence that men aren't interested in teaching young children? How can it be shown that the effect wasn't caused by discrimination? 3-infinity) Same questions, but with any field dominated by one gender

1.) Role models - little boys mimic men cause little kids are gender obsessed. E.g. little boys won't think of being teachers if not seeing them. 2.) There is huge bias and stigma against boy acting girl-like. So yes, at minimum little boy playing with baby will be mocked more then girl playing with car.

I believe (1) is circular: "State X is a problem because it tends to keep us in State X" - but why is X a problem in the first place?

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#115

Post by shard972 »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #84
virtuous_signal wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they are referring to the healthcare and education fields being over 3/4 women. In my opinion, whether such disparities are problematic, and in which fields, is a genuine question.

I was under the impression there is, within those fields, significant concern about the way men are treated. Males who are passionate about early childcare education are often viewed as dangerous by the parents. Same for male nurses.

I guess the point though is what do we do about it? Should we start public awareness campaigns? Should change the culture by making sure people who think men are harmful towards their children are socially punished?

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#116

Post by magduf »

watwut wrote: post #63
earlINmeyerkeg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is probably the one part of the article they really should've made more prominent. Yet they didn't. They hammered it home that videogames and young men not getting married and having 12 kids is the problem. Maybe culturally getting married is incredibly more time consuming and difficult than it used to be? I mean I'm reading George Orwell's Burmese days and the main character was trying to propose (and the girl…

It did used to be normal to marry after extremely short time from our point of view. And divorce was harder. There were consequences for that through - partner who hate each other, violence, abuse (verbal, emotional, physical). Alcoholism.

>There were consequences for that through - partner who hate each other, violence, abuse (verbal, emotional, physical). Alcoholism.

Yeah, the people who pine for the "good old days" when people married for life always leave this part out.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#117

Post by alexis_fr »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #109
shiado wrote: post #80

The labor force participation rates for men and women are currently at 69.2% and 57.7% respectively. They arbitrarily exclude farming positions but cite mining, logging, manufacturing, transportation, and warehouse roles traditionally occupied by men. This article doesn't really seem to paint a full or accurate picture.

Wait, so women make up the majority of the non-farm labor force, but the labor force participation rate is 12% higher for men? How does that work? Are 12% of men either in the military or on disability? Or what?

2.3 million men are in prison in USA. The definition is “divided by the total noninstitutionalized, civilian working-age population.”

As a counter-example, average IQ at the workplace is 110. Where’s everyone under IQ90? Injured, suicide, drug addicts etc.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#118

Post by magduf »

jl2718 wrote: post #105
russdill wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind, the US population is 51% female. So there is still a higher percentage of employed males vs employed females.

There are ~5% more males by birth, ~100% more males by Visa, and ~40% more males by illegal immigration.

Yes, and even so there's still more women. Basically, men get killed off early.

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#119

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #94
bitL wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that comes from biology, many men can have children in their 70s, most women have problems past 35 (my piano teacher almost died in the age of 41 while giving birth, 3 years ago). Maybe medicine in the future would allow it, but as far as nature goes, there are different limits.

>many men can have children in their 70s Just because you can have an erection and produce sperm at 70 doesn't mean you can have children and if you do they'll most likely suffer from down syndrome or other conditions. Having kids after 45 as a male carries risks for the children as well.

>if you do they'll most likely suffer from down syndrome

Please cite something for this assertion or delete it, as it is not in line with anything I've read on the matter.

Increased paternal age carries some potential for increased side effects for their children, but it is absolutely nowhere near the risks involved in a delayed pregnancy for women [0].

[0]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/well/family/older-fathers...

Re: Women now make up the majority of the U.S. labor force

#120

Post by hadesenia »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #16

The more interesting thing is the distribution of income. I would happily bet that there still is a considerable gap between women on average and men on average and that the total amount taken home by that majority is significantly less than the total amount for the men.

What about marriage? If a man makes more money and he is married is HE talking more? Isn't that income split (or in reality spent by the women)? I have never understood why data on married men is treated as if the men are single and it's their money alone.

A lot of couples keep separate finances. Money is one of the biggest reasons couples split up, after all. While my boyfriend and I aren’t married, we do split our household contributions and pay from our own accounts.

I think it is also interesting to study the money men and women bring separately into their relationship and how that plays into relationship dynamics.

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