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In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

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Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#71

Post by solinent »

catalogia wrote: post #56
bb88 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One theory is that good looking software engineers aren't software engineers for very long. Why would you get paid shit wages when you can be a VP of telling people what to do? Call it the "jock-ification" of the tech world. It was bad enough when they were in high school, now they've infiltrated the tech world.

> "Call it the "jock-ification" of the tech world. It was bad enough when they were in high school, now they've infiltrated the tech world." The "jock/nerd dichotomy" is a dumb harmful stereotype used by lazy hollywood and television writers. Many of the smartest people I've ever known were also the most athletic. There is NO inverse relationship between physical fitness and intelligence. If anything, there is a posi…

It was obvious to the ancient Greeks, we're still getting there today. The Hollywood stereotype perpetuates the split, which definitely exists today, but also the advantages of economic specialization kind of limits you to one or the other these days.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#72

Post by sharadov »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #46
anon9001 wrote: post #11

I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially. The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.

I wonder how this all fits in with the recent trend towards Stoicism in Silicon Valley: From Epictetus, a father of Stoicism >1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. >The things in ou…

The Stoicism is being dished out by the billionaires(Jack Dorsey comes to mind), who have already made it, and want to somehow appear above all worldly things to the masses.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#74

Post by oppositelock »

anon9001 wrote: post #64
oppositelock wrote: post #19

Other commenters may be dismissing this article as obvious, but silicon valley does have a problem, particularly in young, hip startups. These companies want to hire young, hip people, and when products being produced are very vague with no clear market, then things like image matter a lot. Juicero, comes to mind. That's fine, you don't have to work there. However, as you get older, develop wrinkles and grey hair, th…

I think this cuts both ways. I'm getting older, but I get along really well with the fresh meat. What works for me is to come across as an OG hacker and stay up to date on whatever the hot tech is. I'm also as immature as ever and have a pretty good command of dank memes, which I think helps more than people want to admit. I'll follow the culture wherever it goes, the same as I have since I was a teenager. I just alw…

The other way experience helps is that you don't really need to interview at unknown places if you want to work somewhere. Over time, you've built up a professional network, and you can generally switch jobs via that network, instead of walking in the front door. Having a deep specialty in something allows you to work with other such specialists.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#75

Post by catalogia »

solinent wrote: post #71
catalogia wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Call it the "jock-ification" of the tech world. It was bad enough when they were in high school, now they've infiltrated the tech world." The "jock/nerd dichotomy" is a dumb harmful stereotype used by lazy hollywood and television writers. Many of the smartest people I've ever known were also the most athletic. There is NO inverse relationship between physical fitness and intelligence. If anything, there is a posi…

It was obvious to the ancient Greeks, we're still getting there today. The Hollywood stereotype perpetuates the split, which definitely exists today, but also the advantages of economic specialization kind of limits you to one or the other these days.

It exists only insofar as naive children internalize and ape what they see on TV. There is no reason whatsoever that a bright child shouldn't enjoy sports, except the Disney channel tells him he must choose between reading books or exercise, when there is plenty of time in the day for both. And insofar as it discourages smart kids from exercising, it's a clearly harmful stereotype which you should refrain from reinforcing.

Real life is not a 1980s teen comedy movie, no matter how comforting out of shape engineers may find the notion.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#76

Post by newnewpdro »

Appearing fit and healthy, especially for your age, is like activating easy mode for life in general.

I've yet to see a down side, other than losing the short-lived pleasures of eating garbage food constantly. But the novelty of that wore off long ago, it pales in comparison to an active and healthy lifestyle.

- Formerly overweight/borderline obese person enjoying an ideal BMI for over a decade now.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#77

Post by dx87 »

rayiner wrote: post #12

> Only the previous week, he says, he returned from a 10-day trip to Italy’s Amalfi Coast. Before that, he boasts, he journeyed to a yoga retreat and juice cleanse in Bali, the perfect setting to unload the stress he absorbs working at a well-known tech company in Silicon Valley. After ending a five-year marriage and shedding 10 pounds of subcutaneous fat several years back — his sun-kissed body now carb- and toxin-f…

I work on the East coast, and I've had multiple managers complain about having to work with developers on the West coast. They said it's like working with divas because they frequently refuse to attend customer meetings or keep anyone in the loop with what they're doing because they think it's beneath them.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#78

Post by jcomis »

I'm being a bit hyperbolic I'm sure, but this seems to go hand in hand with the "culture fit" obsession with most interview processes. It's really just a gauge of how "cool" and "likable" the person seems. Speaking from witnessing it on both sides of the table.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#79

Post by Kalium »

yters wrote: post #54
malux85 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not totally superficial - a good haircut, shaved face, groomed nose hair, groomed ear hair, nice, clean ironed clothes and good shoes is signalling - it’s saying “All the little things have been dealt with and I have attention to detail - and I am also wise enough to acknowledge that this is signalling and I’m willing to play the game”

True, and it is easier to workout for a half hour everyday and buy a nice pair of clothes, than spend hours coding and pouring through tech docs, which also works into the signaling of 'I work smarter, not harder'. OTOH, the actual engineers see through all the external signaling, which I've also discovered :) :P Or rather, the external signaling can work in the opposite direction with engineers. At any rate, the big…

> OTOH, the actual engineers see through all the external signaling, which I've also discovered :) :P Or rather, the external signaling can work in the opposite direction with engineers.

I think it's important to disambiguate the two. People often believe themselves to be the former, when they have frequently fallen into the trap of the latter. Adopting counter-cultural signaling is not the same as being above signaling, but it's an easy thing to confuse.

Especially when confusing the two is a sop to the ego.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#80

Post by 0xff00ffee »

anon9001 wrote: post #69
0xff00ffee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your list has one glaring exclusion: social skills. If you're a brilliant programmer, but an asshole and proud of it (or unaware of it), then yes, you will not get far on your skills alone. Whether we like it or not, we are all part of a society, and those who choose to rebel against that, well, that's thier choice and accept the consequences. (Follow up: you can't really hide behind remote work if you lack social sk…

Remote work probably makes social skills more important, because your coworkers lose the benefit of non-verbal cues. I work remotely and I try to convey a lot of personality and availability to stay integrated with the team.

Good point!

Email especially. I work with 10 different countries, and programmers from England respond differently to my word choices than programmers from China, Japan, Holland, or India.

I find I have to be painfully concise and free from humor, idiom or analogy. It's tough!

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