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In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

washingtonpost.com

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Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#41

Post by 0xff00ffee »

gnulinux wrote: post #15
bdcravens wrote: post #5

This just in: there's bias based on appearance. Outside of SV, being the wrong skin tone, wrong gender, not pretty enough, too pretty, not tall enough, etc are all attributes that have been unfairly affecting workers, since, well, forever.

You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills, your work output, performance, efficiency, ideas, design etc. Most of my team is remote so for all I know they're just those things I listed above, and a voice and a pixelated set of images Google hangouts show me. It's devastating that people still need to be discriminated in this industry.

Your list has one glaring exclusion: social skills.

If you're a brilliant programmer, but an asshole and proud of it (or unaware of it), then yes, you will not get far on your skills alone.

Whether we like it or not, we are all part of a society, and those who choose to rebel against that, well, that's thier choice and accept the consequences. (Follow up: you can't really hide behind remote work if you lack social skills. Possibly, but not very likely.)

EDIT: Snark removal.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#42

Post by malux85 »

yters wrote: post #37
anon9001 wrote: post #11

I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially. The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.

Yes, totally. I notice a significant difference in how I'm treated, and even perceived technical proficiency, based on whether I'm in shape or not. Being well groomed also helps, but being in shape with sharply defined facial features seems the most significant thing. Losing the glasses and wearing contacts helps, too. OTOH, if I want to get by based on actual technical merits instead of outward attractiveness, then…

It not totally superficial - a good haircut, shaved face, groomed nose hair, groomed ear hair, nice, clean ironed clothes and good shoes is signalling - it’s saying “All the little things have been dealt with and I have attention to detail - and I am also wise enough to acknowledge that this is signalling and I’m willing to play the game”

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#43

Post by catalogia »

gnulinux wrote: post #15
bdcravens wrote: post #5

This just in: there's bias based on appearance. Outside of SV, being the wrong skin tone, wrong gender, not pretty enough, too pretty, not tall enough, etc are all attributes that have been unfairly affecting workers, since, well, forever.

You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills, your work output, performance, efficiency, ideas, design etc. Most of my team is remote so for all I know they're just those things I listed above, and a voice and a pixelated set of images Google hangouts show me. It's devastating that people still need to be discriminated in this industry.

> "You would have thought when you're engineer you'd only be judged based on your technical skills [...]"

I'd not think that unless I was working with Vulcans from Star Trek. It's foolish to expect engineers to be immune from the messier irrational aspects of human interaction. I think perhaps some 'engineer types' confuse the concepts of how something should be and how it actually is. They think they should be judged solely on the quality of their work, so they mistakenly believe they will be judged so. Confusing that which should be and that which is.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#45

Post by hinkley »

bb88 wrote: post #22
LargeWu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, be tall, that doesn't hurt.

Interesting story about China and leg lengthening procedures. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&obj...

I have a suspicion that there may be a cultural difference in posture between the West and China.

I’ve been practicing a Chinese martial art for half a decade, and in the last few years I’ve gotten incredulous looks a handful of times when I tell someone my height. I do not stand rail straight anymore, I hate shoes with lifts in them because they throw off my balance. I am in effect shorter than I was, which puts me at the high end of average in the eyes of people who are below average height (who do stand up, and don’t mind 1 inch heels).

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#46

Post by virtuous_signal »

anon9001 wrote: post #11

I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially. The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.

I wonder how this all fits in with the recent trend towards Stoicism in Silicon Valley:

From Epictetus, a father of Stoicism

>1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

>The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you.

>23. If you ever happen to turn your attention to externals, so as to wish to please anyone, be assured that you have ruined your scheme of life.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#47

Post by natalyarostova »

rayiner wrote: post #12

> Only the previous week, he says, he returned from a 10-day trip to Italy’s Amalfi Coast. Before that, he boasts, he journeyed to a yoga retreat and juice cleanse in Bali, the perfect setting to unload the stress he absorbs working at a well-known tech company in Silicon Valley. After ending a five-year marriage and shedding 10 pounds of subcutaneous fat several years back — his sun-kissed body now carb- and toxin-f…

East coast journalism has a fetish for hating and describing SV engineers in the worst possible ways.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#48

Post by 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 »

j7ake wrote: post #38
oppositelock wrote: post #19

Other commenters may be dismissing this article as obvious, but silicon valley does have a problem, particularly in young, hip startups. These companies want to hire young, hip people, and when products being produced are very vague with no clear market, then things like image matter a lot. Juicero, comes to mind. That's fine, you don't have to work there. However, as you get older, develop wrinkles and grey hair, th…

Sounds like an opportunity for start ups to pick up undervalues talent through some “moneyball “ approach

Good engineers are smart enough not to work at “hip” places unless it comes with a hip paycheck as well.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#49

Post by jelliclesfarm »

I am very pro-body modification. And it’s affordable to the masses now and safer with non invasive medtech.

One day...I hope in my lifetime..we will be able to have implants to download our thoughts, memories and feelings..dare I say..consciousness..or soul..into a chip.

Looking at the physical body as a vessel and getting used to the idea that it is merely necessary hardware to our mind is important.

I don’t want to create children for immortality. I want to be immortal as myself.

It’s not about hacking biology. It’s about hacking immortality. This is the first step. Tiny one. But crucial one.

Re: In Silicon Valley, some men say cosmetic procedures are essential to a career

#50

Post by mmanfrin »

opportune wrote: post #14
anon9001 wrote: post #11

I'm pretty convinced that the most important thing you can do for your career after achieving basic technical competence is to be more attractive, both physically and socially. The reality is that you're going to have an easier time making connections and getting access to opportunities if you're well-mannered, sociable, and attractive.

This is absolutely true and applies to more than just your career. When I was fatter vs when I was in shape I’ve noticed huge differences in how strangers treat me and how much acquaintances want to get to know me.

I've been big most of my life, for a few years I managed to drop 100lbs and unfortunately gained it all back. It's staggering how differently people treat you, whether they realize it or not.
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