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VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

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Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#101

Post by jordigh »

SquareWheel wrote: post #99
ddevault wrote: post #10

This is really great! I wish they wouldn't call it "open source", though. It looks like a source-available license: https://github.com/TerryCavanagh/VVVVVV/blob/master/LICENSE.... If Terry is reading this, please correct your article. The correct terminology is important! Open source is defined by the OSD, which this license doesn't qualify for: https://opensource.org/osd Kudos for releasing your game's source, thoug…

> Open source is defined by the OSD, which this license doesn't qualify for The OSD isn't an arbiter of what is and isn't. Open-source is a flexible term, and insisting that projects must meet definitions A, B, and C is just going to fragment the community and exclude people.

The point of insisting what "open source" means is that we want to ensure the freedoms that open source guarantees. If we don't insist on this definition people will start pushing licenses that forbid commercial use and other things, as this license forbids, and we'll embrace it because we think "ah, open source!"

And yes, when you coin a term, you also get to say what that term means. That's the whole point of coining it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22012429

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#102

Post by reificator »

pdpi wrote: post #72

Oh gods. VVVVVV's core mechanic is that you don't so much "jump" as you just flip gravity, and you only get to do so when your feet are firmly on the floor. This leads to some very interesting designs. The stage "Veni Vidi Vici (Doing Things The Hard Way)" is possibly the evilest level I've ever completed in a video game. Just a tiny little block, trivial to jump over, but the lack of a jump button means you have to.…

I just completed that on switch the other day, took me about 100 deaths. In fairness it's not the first time I played the game, but it's been nearly a decade since the last time.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#103

Post by SquareWheel »

jordigh wrote: post #101
SquareWheel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open source is defined by the OSD, which this license doesn't qualify for The OSD isn't an arbiter of what is and isn't. Open-source is a flexible term, and insisting that projects must meet definitions A, B, and C is just going to fragment the community and exclude people.

The point of insisting what "open source" means is that we want to ensure the freedoms that open source guarantees. If we don't insist on this definition people will start pushing licenses that forbid commercial use and other things, as this license forbids, and we'll embrace it because we think "ah, open source!" And yes, when you coin a term, you also get to say what that term means. That's the whole point of coini…

The freedoms are guaranteed by the language of the license itself. That's what licenses are for.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#104

Post by cjbprime »

simias wrote: post #52
cjbprime wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks similar to e.g. Quake 3's license, source is open but assets aren't.

Not at all, Quake 3's source code is GPL[1]. You can totally sell a game made with Quake 3's source, you just have to redistribute the source as mandated by the GPL. v{6}'s license is more restrictive. The assets are a different problem. You can use the code without the assets and vice-versa. [1] https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-III-Arena/blob/master/C...

Oops, I missed that extra clause, thanks.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#105

Post by joshuamorton »

jordigh wrote: post #101
SquareWheel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open source is defined by the OSD, which this license doesn't qualify for The OSD isn't an arbiter of what is and isn't. Open-source is a flexible term, and insisting that projects must meet definitions A, B, and C is just going to fragment the community and exclude people.

The point of insisting what "open source" means is that we want to ensure the freedoms that open source guarantees. If we don't insist on this definition people will start pushing licenses that forbid commercial use and other things, as this license forbids, and we'll embrace it because we think "ah, open source!" And yes, when you coin a term, you also get to say what that term means. That's the whole point of coini…

You're arguing about linguistic prescriptivism vs. descriptivism. Is the definition of the term what the coiner says, or is it how it is commonly understood?

A lot of people are going to disagree with you if you claim that prescriptivism is somehow more correct.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#107

Post by ehsankia »

pdpi wrote: post #86
dkersten wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow that brings back memories! That section took what felt like ages to eventually successfully perform.

400ish attempts for me IIRC. But then I could do it on demand for a while (I’ve since lost the muscle memory of course)

I need to play through this again. So many great memories. It was one of the great early indie games that paved the way for thousands more, alongside World of Goo, Braid and Super Meat Boy.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#108

Post by degenerate »

ranger207 wrote: post #54

The Awesome Games Done Quick speedrunning marathon [0] ran this game this morning. I didn't get a chance to see it, but I wonder if they mentioned anything about its tenth anniversary? Watch for the video here [1] after today's stream is archived. [0] gamesdonequick.com [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/ek9zmz/agdq_vod_t...

Here is the direct link to watch (the run is 21 minutes total):

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/533706108?t=05h29m30s

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#109

Post by ehsankia »

klodolph wrote: post #58

It’s always great to be able to study the source code for successful, released, real games. I will note that this is actually the source code of the C++ rewrite! The original game was written in Flash, and this version was apparently written by Simon Roth. My impressions: The source code is a bit of a tangle here. There are magic numbers ( https://wiki.c2.com/?MagicNumber ) all over the place, plenty of god classes (…

> This is not really out of the ordinary for successful, released, real games

Well said. A lot of people will nitpick and talk big about how they would use proper abstraction and write very clean code, but probably none of those people have ever had a successful indie game out.

Re: VVVVVV’s source code is now public, 10 year anniversary jam happening now

#110

Post by john-radio »

pdpi wrote: post #72

Oh gods. VVVVVV's core mechanic is that you don't so much "jump" as you just flip gravity, and you only get to do so when your feet are firmly on the floor. This leads to some very interesting designs. The stage "Veni Vidi Vici (Doing Things The Hard Way)" is possibly the evilest level I've ever completed in a video game. Just a tiny little block, trivial to jump over, but the lack of a jump button means you have to.…

What I love about VVVVVV is that there's almost no way to describe it and make it sound fun; if you just watched that video and know nothing about the game it would not seem fun at all; and yet it's one of the most fun video games I have ever played.
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