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Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

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Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#31

Post by AmericanChopper »

admax88q wrote: post #26
AmericanChopper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that particular quote is taken out of context a bit. The line immediately preceding it is: > Another damning exchange calls into question the safety of the 737 Max long before the plane was approved to fly passengers. It’s the quality of the finished product I care about, not the quality of the product at some unspecified point during R&D.

Presumably internal employees are familiar with the design process of planes. Or do you suspect they make statements like this for every plane during th early stages?

I have no idea. I doubt anybody commenting in this thread does either, given the complete lack of context.

Given Boeing’s proven track record, you could potentially speculate that the comments are actually in reference to some serious failure. But the quote as it’s presented doesn’t provide any meaningful information.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#32

Post by dehrmann »

shadowgovt wrote: post #2

Any internal correspondence can become public information in a disclosure proces. ~ first rule of corporate communications

I completely agree, but I'm pretty sympathetic to the employees. I've worked enough and made enough jokes at work that I don't give much credence to them. At a lot of places I've worked, people internally often viewed the infrastructure as shit, even when it's well-received by users. I think it's part cynicism, and part that so much time goes to fixing bugs, when all you see is that bad part of something, it colors your judgement.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#33

Post by TrueDuality »

blaisio wrote: post #18

I think this is a reminder - do not say or do inappropriate things using company resources (chat, email, VPN, etc). Don't complain about co-workers, don't joke about breaking the law, don't say or do anything rude or disrespectful. You'll get about 5 seconds of happiness from a joke that can ruin your career.

I'd blunt that with: It is still appropriate for you to respectfully raise concerns with coworkers, management, etc using company resources. That especially includes if you suspect something may actually be illegal, in violation of a contract etc. Basic human decency and ethics aside, getting fired is still better than going to jail as a scape goat.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#34

Post by oska »

btmorex wrote: post #24

I think the only thing that can actually fix Boeing is bankruptcy, so I hope that people refuse to fly on the Max even after recertification and it ends up being too big of a financial blow to recover from.

I agree. I'll be boycotting the Max just on principle, regardless of what extra safety measures are implemented to get it re-certified.

I'm hoping (and kind of expecting) that people will build simple apps or websites to check whether an advertised flight is on a 737 Max. It should be quite easy for people to avoid/boycott this plane.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#35

Post by Waterluvian »

ryanisnan wrote: post #15
tw04 wrote: post #12

My favorite quote: >The company official said the language used and sentiments expressed in these communications "are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response." Values? Your values appear to be maximizing profits at the expense of human lives. Your response to: "the guys developing our simulator were emailing back and forth they'd never fly on this plane" shouldn't be…

I completely agree. It's a great example that they are still incapable of owning their mistakes, and cannot be trusted without a significant dressing down. Let them fail.

Except American interests will trump all so they'll play as dirty as they need against Airbus and kill Canadian aerospace in the process.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#36

Post by dehrmann »

btmorex wrote: post #24

I think the only thing that can actually fix Boeing is bankruptcy, so I hope that people refuse to fly on the Max even after recertification and it ends up being too big of a financial blow to recover from.

How would bankruptcy fix Boeing? Bankruptcy is a process around restructuring debts (or winding down the company). It's also very likely to get a bailout (if it comes to that) since the world needs more than one major commercial aircraft maker.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#37

Post by rurp »

Wow, this article is full of amazing quotes. I highly recommend reading the entire thing. My favorite one I haven't seen posted yet > "I still haven't been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year," one employee says in 2018, referring to an exchange of information with the FAA.

Utterly unbelievable, yet also totally unsurprising given everything else that's come out about Boeing recently.

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#38

Post by a1369209993 »

dannyw wrote: post #7
playeren wrote: post #5

> The company official said the language used and sentiments expressed in these communications "are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response." Do you think this means: a) Change the environment that fosters those kinds of messages? -or- b) Punish those who wrote those messages?

Boeing is saying the language used and sentiments expressed are bad. They're not saying that releasing a plane that employees were sounding safety alarms are about is bad.

This. Exactly this. They are literally saying:

> [Sounding safety alarms is] inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate [ie punitive] action in response [to prevent any alarms on the next unsafe design].

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#39

Post by notJim »

tw04 wrote: post #12

My favorite quote: >The company official said the language used and sentiments expressed in these communications "are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response." Values? Your values appear to be maximizing profits at the expense of human lives. Your response to: "the guys developing our simulator were emailing back and forth they'd never fly on this plane" shouldn't be…

This seems right to me. I think most of us have been in situations where we've commiserated with coworkers about a problem that we felt was beyond us to fix, because it's coming from the top. Either management is actively refusing to invest in the necessary changes, or they're creating an environment where it's not even safe to bring those problems to light. And even worse, a culture where it's normalized that there are unfixable problems, such that employees barely even remark on them.
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