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Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

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Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#21

Post by AmericanChopper »

Pxtl wrote: post #9
shadowgovt wrote: post #2

Any internal correspondence can become public information in a disclosure proces. ~ first rule of corporate communications

Yup. Talk as much crap as you want in person, but what goes in email and web messages and pull-requests and code comments must be immaculate.

Why? I’ve ragged on my employers in DMs, and will often express very blunt concerns about quality/risks in emails or PRs. Providing my opinions in such channels is part of what I’m paid to do. If my employer doesn’t heed my advice, manages to majorly mess something up, and my comments come back to haunt them, why is that my problem?

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#22

Post by robbiep »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #16
thaumasiotes wrote: post #3

Geez. > "Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn't," says one employee to another, who responds, "No." > Peter DeFazio, [D-Oregon], called newly released documents "incredibly damning" That's hard to argue with. You'd like to think this kind of thing would... leak. Who said conspiracies involving hundreds of people are impossible?

I feel that particular quote is taken out of context a bit. The line immediately preceding it is: > Another damning exchange calls into question the safety of the 737 Max long before the plane was approved to fly passengers. It’s the quality of the finished product I care about, not the quality of the product at some unspecified point during R&D.

I don’t see that extra bit of context changing the quote

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#25

Post by TrueDuality »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #3

Geez. > "Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn't," says one employee to another, who responds, "No." > Peter DeFazio, [D-Oregon], called newly released documents "incredibly damning" That's hard to argue with. You'd like to think this kind of thing would... leak. Who said conspiracies involving hundreds of people are impossible?

Group think is a real thing unfortunately...

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#26

Post by admax88q »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #16
thaumasiotes wrote: post #3

Geez. > "Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn't," says one employee to another, who responds, "No." > Peter DeFazio, [D-Oregon], called newly released documents "incredibly damning" That's hard to argue with. You'd like to think this kind of thing would... leak. Who said conspiracies involving hundreds of people are impossible?

I feel that particular quote is taken out of context a bit. The line immediately preceding it is: > Another damning exchange calls into question the safety of the 737 Max long before the plane was approved to fly passengers. It’s the quality of the finished product I care about, not the quality of the product at some unspecified point during R&D.

Presumably internal employees are familiar with the design process of planes. Or do you suspect they make statements like this for every plane during th early stages?

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#27

Post by freepor »

blaisio wrote: post #18

I think this is a reminder - do not say or do inappropriate things using company resources (chat, email, VPN, etc). Don't complain about co-workers, don't joke about breaking the law, don't say or do anything rude or disrespectful. You'll get about 5 seconds of happiness from a joke that can ruin your career.

That’s what you took away from this?

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#28

Post by freepor »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #14
playeren wrote: post #5

> The company official said the language used and sentiments expressed in these communications "are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response." Do you think this means: a) Change the environment that fosters those kinds of messages? -or- b) Punish those who wrote those messages?

Both, but as a higher priority, c) punish the exec team on whose watch it happened. Bring back the concept of responsibility. They are paid to be in overall responsibility for anything that happens under their remit. Time was such a behaviour in the department, or under their leadership would have ended a career. Realising the actions of a lowly engineer or janitor can end their gravy train, they might implement adeq…

Why just end a career? Why not go to jail?

Re: Boeing employees mocked FAA in internal messages before 737 Max disasters

#29

Post by AmericanChopper »

robbiep wrote: post #22
AmericanChopper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that particular quote is taken out of context a bit. The line immediately preceding it is: > Another damning exchange calls into question the safety of the 737 Max long before the plane was approved to fly passengers. It’s the quality of the finished product I care about, not the quality of the product at some unspecified point during R&D.

I don’t see that extra bit of context changing the quote

Vague remarks about the design of the plane being unsound at any point in time prior to it being approved to fly passengers, doesn’t reveal any information at all about the soundness of the design of the plane that was eventually approved to fly passengers.
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