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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#211

Post by hcnews »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

I am always fairly surprised at the gross simplification done in HN discussions.

Why build another search engine people? Alta Vista etc. have already solved the problem.

Not to say that ideas don't fail, but don't count the chickens before they have hatched and there are a few approaches still left to try.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#212

Post by davchana »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

Well, the cost can be laughably low for some; but not for all of us in the cities these services exist.

Last year I moved to a small city in Northern California with no Uber/Lyft, & I don't own a car because of money shortage, I had a bike from Walmart for $150 which was stolen before I moved from Bay Area. I looked at some of the scooters equivalent to Bird or Lime ones, starting from $800 upwards.

I found a good one from Walmart Thanksgiving sale for $250; but it was not good enough for that money; & I returned it & returned to walking around. So, I would live Bird or Lime coming here; & no, the cost is not low enough for all of us.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#213

Post by [deleted] »

rory096 wrote: post #194
ProAm wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's makes urban sidewalks look like they are strewn with litter. It's the reason why Im glad to see they are banned. They make walkable cities less walkable.

This is a myopic view. In my city's experience, when infrastructure like parking corrals are provided scooter users tend to behave properly. When there's nowhere to leave your scooter except to balance them in a 5-inch space parallel to the curb, they become disruptive. The solution is to reallocate a minimal quantity of the vast space in our cities we currently designate for the exclusive use of automobiles, not to…

[deleted]

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#214

Post by sireat »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

E-scooters are a very tempting business because the napkin math is very tempting.

In my neck of woods escooter rentals are 10+ Euros an hour.

So 500 Euros for scooter / 10 => 50 hours to break even

Then you say okay maybe only 1 percent utilization => 5000 hours which is still ~6 months (we are talking napkin math).

This makes for a great elevator pitch.

Only later do you start worrying about vandalism, logistics/costs of gathering scooters every night etc.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#215

Post by jandrese »

asdff wrote: post #159
jandrese wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect them to cannibalize taxi/bus/subway rides to some degree. They seem like a pretty good alternative for people who want to travel some middling distance like a dozen blocks that would be a somewhat lengthy walk but a fairly short taxi ride. Plus it could definitely be faster if the traffic is congested.

Once you start getting to the 20 minute mark the scooter ride stops being so cheap, and you were probably better off getting an uber and going farther and faster for about the same price. I don't think it can replace the subways as they are used here in la. A scooter can't go from downtown to hollywood in 20 minutes; not even cars hit the 70mph the subway does in this city.

If it is taking you 20 minutes to go a dozen blocks on a motorized scooter then maybe it is the wrong tool for the job.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#216

Post by jgwil2 »

jtcruthers wrote: post #178
robrenaud wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. This isn't true if you are in a dense city with good public transit. This is currently mid day (3 PM), and it's about 30% faster (21 minutes vs 29 minutes) to go from my current location in Manhattan to a bar I enjoy hanging out in Brooklyn via public transit than car, according to Google Maps. It would be even better around rush hour.

There are maybe 2 or 3 cities in the entire United States that are dense enough with good enough public transportation. The vast majority of the population cannot relate.

GP is refuting the idea that public transit is inherently the slowest mode of transportation by providing an instructive counter-example. If the vast majority of the population cannot relate, that's a product of policy choices that favor sparse development in most of the country.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#217

Post by Rebelgecko »

jschwartzi wrote: post #162
mdorazio wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Aren't you ignoring the hundreds of billions in public subsidies that your "basic unsubsidized transit methods" enjoy? Cars are expensive and our emphasis on subsidizing car travel at the federal, state, county and city level is an enormous regressive tax on the poorest members of our society for whom $1000 or $5000 is an impossible amount of money.

Even if you make an apples to apples comparison (cost of renting a scooter vs cost of buying one outright), renting doesn't really make sense if it's something you want to use regularly.

For a 10 minute commute daily commute, the break even point for buying a scooter vs renting one comes in less than 60 days.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#218

Post by FartyMcFarter »

martinald wrote: post #122
ravenstine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a cane or a wheelchair then good luck when you come across a pile of bikes on the sidewalk. Even one of those JUMP bikes tipped over can be a problem. I used to see this all the time in Santa Monica. Bikes lined up close together would either fall like dominoes or get kicked over by hoodlums, blocking walking paths or potential parking spots. What's hilarious is the number of believers willing to say abou…

Compared to a car parking on the sidewalk and totally blocking it which happens so often?

That is much more rare than lime bikes on sidewalks, at least here. Also, cars on sidewalks don't tend to fall on people's feet by getting slightly knocked over.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#219

Post by 4d617832 »

giobox wrote: post #114
jeffnappi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think e-bikes in certain markets will be profitable as a division of bigger organizations like Uber/Lyft. For example I spent $6 on two JUMP bike rentals last night to get to and from a Meetup. It was convenient and the bikes did the job handily. As a company that only does the bike share, I don't think they will be able to compete with the likes of Uber/Lyft etc.

I used to be bullish on ebikes for commuting, until I started buying secondhand ones barely a few months old on craigslist at steep discounts for my own family. In every case, the owner had a change of heart and switched to a scooter. Why? Because the ebike is huge and heavy, needs dedicated locking, parking etc. Often there isn't room for it on the bus/train. They all found the scooter way better for last mile style…

Where are you located? I just wonder if this is because the enviroment isn't firendly to normal bikes either. Where I live I don't have any issues to park a bike. And I would never take it on a bus/train because there is no such thing as last mile when biking, especially ebiking.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#220

Post by dkarl »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

Like car services, scooters are a great complement to commuting on public transit. Most of the time, when you commute on public transit, you don't need another vehicle. But things come up unpredictably that require you to run a quick errand or go somewhere outside walking distance to meet friends.

When I ask people if they would commute to work on public transit, the biggest thing they worry about is, "What if I have to ____?" They don't like the thought of being useless when their partner asks them to run an errand, or left out when their friends plan something after work. Even if 95% of their workdays would be nothing but catching the bus or train downtown, working and patronizing businesses in a small walkable area, and then taking the bus or train home again, and even if it's significantly less burdensome than driving, a lot of people will still drive because they can't give up the feeling of being able to deal with contingencies. Rental and on-demand transportation options address that without forcing people to keep their own vehicle on hand every day even though they rarely need it.

I think this is an important factor for making public transit attractive to people who are accustomed to the advantages of driving everywhere. Right now, car-based services like Uber and Lyft are sufficient for that, but as city centers back away from the massive accommodations they've made for car traffic, bikes and scooters will become more important.

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