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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#181

Post by asdff »

bosie wrote: post #6
vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

If I bike past 3 miles I'm gonna start sweating, and pushing 5 miles I start feeling it on bad air days. With the scooter you just stand still and don't have to do any special layering. People ride them in suits.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#182

Post by RowanH »

Koremat6666 wrote: post #170
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

It is a solely hipster thingy of bay area. The alternative to scooter is walking little more. If the range of your feet is say half a mile (you are willing to walk half a mile after getting out of train say) then scooter probably makes it 1 mile but adds a lot of other variable to it such as unreliability, availability, availability to return etc. I will happily short position in any of these scooter companies meant…

.... actually for a more global perspective, they have been operating in New Zealand. Visiting Christchurch which is a fairly compact flat small city Lime's were the best thing ever to get around on. Living in Auckland, I haven't touched one - hilly, not enough coverage, too large a distance. So they do have their place outside of the hipster bay community :)

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#183

Post by TylerE »

robrenaud wrote: post #169
Hasz wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior. Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive me…

> Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. This isn't true if you are in a dense city with good public transit. This is currently mid day (3 PM), and it's about 30% faster (21 minutes vs 29 minutes) to go from my current location in Manhattan to a bar I enjoy hanging out in Brooklyn via public transit than car, according to Google Maps. It would be even better around rush hour.

In the same way it isn't true that healthcare in the US isn't unaffordable as long as you're a successful businessman with lots of savings. Maybe technically correct, but useless to most people.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#184

Post by microdrum »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

Excellent post. This was obvious from the beginning and is causing a rerating of the vcs who invested in these economically and technically checkered deals.[1]

[1] https://medium.com/craft-ventures/the-other-electric-vehicle...

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#185

Post by ProAm »

asdff wrote: post #156
ProAm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there is probably a solution for this, but these companies could have discussed this with the cities prior to dumping thousands of discarded scooters everywhere. It's being a bad neighbor to force the city to deal with a problem it didnt have last week because you have VC funding and dont mind littering. So yes, Id rather ban them and subsequently address the issue.

That's like any technology, it appears then you regulate bad behavior. Parking enforcement didn't appear before cars were invented and were suddenly parking on every free surface with no order or logic, getting in the way of pedestrians.

Littering was already against the law in most cities. But it didnt take crazy foresight for these companies to see would be problematic but, personally, I feel greed just got in the way. Move fast, break things, break laws, ask for forgiveness later.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#186

Post by zymhan »

Hasz wrote: post #161
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior. Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive me…

I work 4.5 miles from my apartment in Atlanta. I can either spend 40 minutes in traffic getting home every day, or I can spend an equivalent amount of time on a train, and the a bus ride or walking.

In a lot of cities, driving is not faster. It's just sometimes the only option.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#187

Post by jtcruthers »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #176
Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

Why would anyone want to own a car? You have to park it, both at your house and at your destination, you have to do maintenance on it, yada yada. What a waste of time and space.

To get from point A to point B without walking half a mile and waiting 10 minutes for a bus to go a quarter the speed to a stop half a mile from your destination. I'm sure a lot of people want a car so they don't have to expose their groceries or small children to the disgusting mess that is public transportation in the vast majority of (American) cities.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#188

Post by Spooky23 »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

I agree it’s a dumb business but the use case makes sense.

Storing things that are smaller than cars is really tough, and scaling a business like this nationally is fairly capital and operationally expensive.

If the scooters were street legal, this would be a great localized business.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#189

Post by zymhan »

mdorazio wrote: post #151
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Basic financial planning would indicate that owning a money losing asset (i.e. car) is not a good idea.

I can assure you I've spent far less not owning a car, even with every Uber ride, car rental, scooter rental, transit, and taxi ride.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#190

Post by zymhan »

Aperocky wrote: post #164
Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

If nobody ever stole anything, I'd wholeheartedly support that. In fact, I'm willing to shell out 5 times the regular cost for a bike that would never ever be stolen wherever I leave it. Finding places to park and lock and worry about it not getting stolen is just way too much. Relevant: I've owned 4 $1000+ bike over the past 10 years, one of which is stolen right outside home, another is almost stolen (moved then fo…

Thankfully no one ever steals cars.
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