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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#151

Post by mdorazio »

the_imp wrote: post #147
Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

And, you know, basic financial planning... For the vast majority of people, renting basic unsubsidized transit methods on a daily basis costs far more than owning and operating your own. Good for you if your financial situation allows you to ignore that fact, but it’s rather yuppy bubble thinking to assume that applies to everyone.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#152

Post by bobthepanda »

mumblemumble wrote: post #93
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for short trips such as commuting less than 5-ish km to work, or taking the kids to school. However, I still think bicycles are vastly preferable. With a pannier rack you get quite a bit more cargo space, and in the winter, the fact that you're physically exerting yourself helps to keep you warm, which makes for a more comfortable and pleasant trip. A…

The major issue for me with biking, particularly e-biking, is that it can be very expensive if your bike is stolen. Secure bike parking is hard to come by in many places, and even secured bike parking can be broken into. In my city it's also very hilly, so I've taken a rideshare bike down the hill but not up it. Docking also solves this problem, but the problem with docks is that they have to go through whatever NIMBY-obstructed local process the municipality has for setting up docks, they have to be appropriately densely spaced together, etc. and that's a lot of work. Bike/scooter share, at least initially, tried doing the Uber model of "break rules and apologize/legalize later", but I think cities wised up after Uber did it once.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#153

Post by maccam94 »

thanatropism wrote: post #102
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

I rode Lime-branded scooters in my "global South" town for a couple of weeks. It was a really expensive proposition and I was basically paying for the thrill. But the city (probably wisely) banned them from sidewalks -- when the whole point was to replace walking, not renting a highly vulnerable motorcycle substitute to ride with the cars in the street. To answer your question: high prices/margins.

It's a nice better experience in dedicated bike lanes.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#154

Post by asdff »

tempsy wrote: post #130
gkoberger wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the problem... there's a huge market for scooters, but there's so many competitors in San Diego. I love scooters, and even I'm annoyed by how hard it is to walk around SD without tripping over PILES of them.

seems like a lose lose for the industry then. there are a few cities out there that are optimized for scooters year round like San Diego, and the barrier of entry is too low, and then no one wins because there's too much competition.

It's not weather you need, it's infrastructure. Scooters clogging sidewalks is an infrastructure problem. Scooters having to deal with car traffic is an infrastructure problem.

The solution to these infrastructure problems are to get a can of paint, make a bike lane, and a scooter parking space. Let the app geofence, and voila, a functional transit network that avoids all the annoyances everyone states ad infinitum until local council bans them.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#155

Post by nikanj »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

At least in SF, you would take your own scooter to the office in the morning, and walk back in the evening. Because your scooter got stolen, and the police don't really bother chasing down a $300 item.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#156

Post by asdff »

ProAm wrote: post #150
asdff wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The civil engineers in downtown santa monica have engineered a brilliant solution: stencil a scooter and box on the sidewalk. This is some serious space grade stuff considering JPL isn't too far away, unsure if we have the engineering capabilities to apply this solution in other cities. Better ban them outright, right? In all seriousness, the apps let cities geofence arbitrary areas. You could just spray paint an ord…

I agree there is probably a solution for this, but these companies could have discussed this with the cities prior to dumping thousands of discarded scooters everywhere. It's being a bad neighbor to force the city to deal with a problem it didnt have last week because you have VC funding and dont mind littering. So yes, Id rather ban them and subsequently address the issue.

That's like any technology, it appears then you regulate bad behavior. Parking enforcement didn't appear before cars were invented and were suddenly parking on every free surface with no order or logic, getting in the way of pedestrians.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#157

Post by logifail »

the_imp wrote: post #147
Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

> The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed.

99% of all our family journeys begin and end at our home. Happily we own two (ICE) vehicles, they're sitting outside the house right now ready to be used tomorrow.

(As an aside) I've just booked a flight for Sunday (o/w flight $46 including all taxes and fees). I'm flying the best part of 600mi, so I've booked a rental car at the destination airport. It's going to cost me $72 for three days rental, including all taxes and fees.

None of this stuff is new...

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#158

Post by mdorazio »

giobox wrote: post #114
jeffnappi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think e-bikes in certain markets will be profitable as a division of bigger organizations like Uber/Lyft. For example I spent $6 on two JUMP bike rentals last night to get to and from a Meetup. It was convenient and the bikes did the job handily. As a company that only does the bike share, I don't think they will be able to compete with the likes of Uber/Lyft etc.

I used to be bullish on ebikes for commuting, until I started buying secondhand ones barely a few months old on craigslist at steep discounts for my own family. In every case, the owner had a change of heart and switched to a scooter. Why? Because the ebike is huge and heavy, needs dedicated locking, parking etc. Often there isn't room for it on the bus/train. They all found the scooter way better for last mile style…

For me the solution here is a folding e-bike, of which there are many.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#159

Post by asdff »

jandrese wrote: post #140
fabioborellini wrote: post #69

If it is impossible to run a profitable e-scooter rental service even with the current terms, imagine how much money the companies would burn if they could not externalise the costs of accidents to riders' insurance companies and taxpayers (in locales with public healthcare). In my home town the scooters have almost exclusively been used to replace walking. They have not reduced the market share of other means of mot…

I'd expect them to cannibalize taxi/bus/subway rides to some degree. They seem like a pretty good alternative for people who want to travel some middling distance like a dozen blocks that would be a somewhat lengthy walk but a fairly short taxi ride. Plus it could definitely be faster if the traffic is congested.

Once you start getting to the 20 minute mark the scooter ride stops being so cheap, and you were probably better off getting an uber and going farther and faster for about the same price. I don't think it can replace the subways as they are used here in la. A scooter can't go from downtown to hollywood in 20 minutes; not even cars hit the 70mph the subway does in this city.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#160

Post by brainzap »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

They also share the market with bike rental.
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