Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#121

Post by viraptor » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

texasbigdata wrote: post #68

john_moscow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why did the VCs value these as billion dollar companies? Desperation? Because VCs get paid from selling the shares to the public. So as long as a general unsophisticated investor is expected to buy in, it's a good deal for a VC, even if the underlying business model is laughable.

While never having been on one due to no helmets being provided, in Denver and in Dallas and in Austin they arguably revolutionized the city core and how younger people get around. For better and worse. And while not fully diligent on this, isn't Uber still not profitable on a unit economic basis? And they are mature and public. Perhaps that statement isn't true but it provides one justification for investing in scoo…

> isn't Uber still not profitable on a unit economic basis?

Uber still has money to burn and is trying to grow even more. They could likely be profitable if they wanted, pretty quickly, by limiting spending/expansion.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#122

Post by martinald » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #89

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #67

Thank $deity. I'm tired of seeing these humongous bikes taking up space on sidewalks, and threatening to fall onto unsuspecting people and animals. Here's hoping they fail in other markets as well.

If you have a cane or a wheelchair then good luck when you come across a pile of bikes on the sidewalk. Even one of those JUMP bikes tipped over can be a problem. I used to see this all the time in Santa Monica. Bikes lined up close together would either fall like dominoes or get kicked over by hoodlums, blocking walking paths or potential parking spots. What's hilarious is the number of believers willing to say abou…

Compared to a car parking on the sidewalk and totally blocking it which happens so often?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#123

Post by bduerst » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #53

bduerst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with that napkin math, the value to not have to own the asset, insure it against theft, or carry it around constantly is still worth it to some consumers. The spontaneity of "hop on and ride, then forget about it" is the appeal.

You’re right about that value add, but it’s probably not a value add for anyone using an electric scooter as a daily means of transportation. One of the biggest detractors is that you could ride a scooter to work and when you go to leave, realize the nearest scooter is half a mile away.

Then in that hypothetical you just pay a little more for an uber/lyft. That's the benefit of not being locked into an asset.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#124

Post by aminulislam1266 » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

unforeseen is the army of charging slaves that patrol the city at 4 AM for a few extra dollars at their own expense. E-scooters launched through shop windows and into streets after bars close.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#125

Post by gkoberger » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #113

wow I'm really surprised to see San Diego on the list of "underperforming" markets that was cut. seems like a huge red flag for the industry if that's true. no city have I been to had more scooters everywhere than San Diego. and the city has been very accommodating in the sense that they created designated scooter parking areas. it's almost the perfect city for scooters: almost always warm/sunny, very flat, not great…

I think that's the problem... there's a huge market for scooters, but there's so many competitors in San Diego. I love scooters, and even I'm annoyed by how hard it is to walk around SD without tripping over PILES of them.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#126

Post by henryfjordan » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

nahikoa wrote: post #95

The VC funded scooter rental companies don't bear the most significant cost of scooters, public health. Quality studies outlining the risk and costs are scarce, but there are some: https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Health... Key points: 15% of scooter riders who seek medical attention have a traumatic brain injury. This doesn't include those transported by EMS. 63% of injured riders had ridden an…

They will once the lawsuits make their way through the legal system. TBI lawsuits are big business.

Also wear a helmet if you are going be on the roads in the US!

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#127

Post by Hasz » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed.

9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline.

For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of a scooter is laughably low. It's sold as a quicker-than-walking, less-hassle-than-a-car last mile solution, but again, 9/10 of my trips are 0 displacement, so, why not just buy the scooter outright? Cheaper, safer, faster (I know where it is, no need to walk to it, etc).

They only way Lime, Bird etc survive is by legislation. Lobby for scooter licensure, buy up all the licenses, and become the taxi industry (except for scooters, and you have to drive!)

What an ironic loop.

At this point, the only reason to fund these guys is FOMO.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#128

Post by asdff » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

TacticalTable wrote: post #18

Of the e-scooter startups I've tried, Lime is my favorite. In my smaller city (Indianapolis) we just have Bird and Lime, and Bird's restrictions on hours, locations, and parking make them very difficult to use (They turn themselves off if they leave their range, and many pieces of downtown are considered 'out of bounds'). Meanwhile, the Limes are better distributed around the city, easier to park, and have much more…

Too much competition, but really the infrastructure is not there in warm cities in the U.S. They also increased the price so you are more inclined to take an uber or public transport than spend $6 on a bird ride. Riding on a pothill filled gutter while cars clip you at 35mph in LA is not ideal. If there were more bike lanes that were longer than 1 block, these things would be way more popular. Not sure why these companies aren't advocating for more bike lanes as it will help their brand.

It also doesn't help that these companies let defective equipment remain in the network. After grabbing a scooter one day that had zero brakes, discovered only when I was trying to stop at a red light and not get slaughtered in the intersection, I now do an inspection of the brake lines and the wheels before I unlock. For some consumers the state these scooters are in will put them off entirely.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#129

Post by rory096 » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

nahikoa wrote: post #95

The VC funded scooter rental companies don't bear the most significant cost of scooters, public health. Quality studies outlining the risk and costs are scarce, but there are some: https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Health... Key points: 15% of scooter riders who seek medical attention have a traumatic brain injury. This doesn't include those transported by EMS. 63% of injured riders had ridden an…

Cars kill 37,000 people in the United States each year.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#130

Post by tempsy » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #125

tempsy wrote: post #113

wow I'm really surprised to see San Diego on the list of "underperforming" markets that was cut. seems like a huge red flag for the industry if that's true. no city have I been to had more scooters everywhere than San Diego. and the city has been very accommodating in the sense that they created designated scooter parking areas. it's almost the perfect city for scooters: almost always warm/sunny, very flat, not great…

I think that's the problem... there's a huge market for scooters, but there's so many competitors in San Diego. I love scooters, and even I'm annoyed by how hard it is to walk around SD without tripping over PILES of them.

seems like a lose lose for the industry then. there are a few cities out there that are optimized for scooters year round like San Diego, and the barrier of entry is too low, and then no one wins because there's too much competition.