How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics • Hacker News Board

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#81

Post by jtaft » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

I did it to learn about computers and security. It's a form of sport too. Feels good to bend the rules and outsmart your opponent. (Opponent as in security controls, not in-game players). You get a rush when your hack works, and using it in a highly interactive environment makes it all the more fun.

From a high level view, you learn:

* Fundamentals of computer security

* Fundamentals of computers, operating systems, and number systems.

* Debugging skills!!! (Can't stress enough)

* Perseverance

* Note taking

From a technical view, you learn:

* Memory Forensics

* Reverse Engineering

* Patching executables (in memory and on disk)

* Anti-Debugging and Anti-Anti debugging tricks

* Packet sniffing and modifying

* Crypto

* 3D Modeling

* Simple algorithms for writing bots

* Memory corruption vulnerabilities

* Programming

That said, I'm HIGHLY against the use of cheats. If you want to show your friends and get a laugh out of it, that's fine! Just don't ruin the gaming experience for others. And don't do anything illegal of course.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#82

Post by mstade » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #78

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

Are there online e-sports tournaments of any meaningful size? (E.g. $1000+ prizes) The only tournaments I've seen amount to essentially LAN parties where all the equipment and installations are provided by the tournament, such that players all compete on fair terms and unable to cheat (unless the opsec at the tournament is terrible, I guess.)

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#83

Post by Buttons840 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #78

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

Any competitive game with big money on the line has the top players gather in the same room (on a stage most likely), and play using computers controlled by the event organizers. The players winning these big tournaments do not cheat.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#84

Post by penagwin » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

yutuytuyt wrote: post #76

Topgamer7 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you just write your own game client like china has been doing for WoW for ages.

It doesn't sound so good Client v1 sends packet A for command Attack So does China Client v1 Developer updates client to v2 and now packet A is non-existent, so no legit user is going to send it so after patch everyone who sends packet A can be banned

This is currently already the case for cheats. When the game updates then the cheat needs to be updated as well. And you can definitely catch cheaters with the method you mentioned, so many cheats check the game version before doing anything.

This means immediately after an update many cheats stop working until they’re updated (or their creator flags the new game version as compatiable)

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#85

Post by astrobe_ » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

tsukurimashou wrote: post #45

mike_hock wrote: post #31

So those games put infrastructure in place for the server to execute arbitrary code on my machine? No, thanks.

The vast majority of gamers are running Windows, if you're running Windows you don't even own your OS. I think a game running some code on your machine is pretty low on the list of things you should worry about.

Except that an MMO with millions of players could become a good weapon in the case of a cyber-warfare. This has been done before with AVs.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#86

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

izzydata wrote: post #78

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

If there's money on the line, I'm surprised if it really isn't illegal? At a minimum, I would expect that to be easy lawsuit territory.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#87

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

withinboredom wrote: post #68

kstenerud wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different kinds of cheaters. Some like the rush of doing something "naughty". Some want quick results. Some want prestige. Some want to explore and exploit the system itself rather than the game. Some want to gold farm. Some want to be like gods. Some want to automate the tedious parts. Some want to take down big mobs that can't be taken down any other way. I once wrote about 400k of Blech code for Macroque…

Some just want to enjoy the story-telling and skip the bs.

There should be a distinction between single player and multiplayer games. I've absolutely used cheat-engine in single player games.

If it was up to me, entering the Konami code would unlock everything in every single player game. Everyone has the right to access content they've purchased in the way and order they see fit.

But when you're playing with other people there's really no excuse.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#88

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

mstade wrote: post #82

izzydata wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

Are there online e-sports tournaments of any meaningful size? (E.g. $1000+ prizes) The only tournaments I've seen amount to essentially LAN parties where all the equipment and installations are provided by the tournament, such that players all compete on fair terms and unable to cheat (unless the opsec at the tournament is terrible, I guess.)

[deleted]

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#89

Post by jotm » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #55

How long until you can point another computer at your game pc or console, to play for you? That’s game over for anti-cheat IMO.

You can already do that. Rooted phone with auto tapping/actions connected as a normal keyboard/mouse. Nothing to be detected on the host, works for dumb grinding which is prevalent in many ~~virtual casinos~~ games

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#90

Post by jotm » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

I've done it in some MMOs so they can shove their grindfest casinos up their asses.

I don't know how it got so bad, MMOs used to be focused on group content, socialization, meaningful progression. Nowadays it's solo grinding bs with constant reminders to "buy this shit, it helps you/makes you look fab". Just sad money squeezing activities that waste your time.