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In China, alpha males carry designer purses

latimes.com

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Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#71

Post by [deleted] »

jcitme wrote: post #62
drinian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that the same Chinese who base their self-worth on Coach handbags don't also aspire to DeBeers diamonds? I stand by my comment, but doubly so because China is far from an industrialized nation. The people buying these things can't even drink their houses' tap water.

As a Chinese person: fuck you. What decade do you think this is, the 1940's? Can't afford tap water? This is the kind of racism that people have to worry about, not stuff like censoring Mark Twain. Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly addressing issues ever will. Much of the cities in china are just as industrialized, if not more so, than counterparts in the USA. The upper middl…

[deleted]

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#72

Post by drinian »

jcitme wrote: post #62
drinian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that the same Chinese who base their self-worth on Coach handbags don't also aspire to DeBeers diamonds? I stand by my comment, but doubly so because China is far from an industrialized nation. The people buying these things can't even drink their houses' tap water.

As a Chinese person: fuck you. What decade do you think this is, the 1940's? Can't afford tap water? This is the kind of racism that people have to worry about, not stuff like censoring Mark Twain. Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly addressing issues ever will. Much of the cities in china are just as industrialized, if not more so, than counterparts in the USA. The upper middl…

This is an article about men buying overpriced scraps of cloth in China. As I said in both of my comments, the people who do this kind of "signaling" in ANY culture are idiots.

Racism? I've traveled through China, alone, stayed in local hotels, bought my own train tickets, and eaten at the night markets. And, yes, I will criticize middle-class people who care more about having shiny rocks, or designer handbags, than demanding things like clean water, or unpolluted air, let alone a more equitable society.

This happens to be an article on China, but it could've been anywhere else in the world. The fact that you (and a lot of other people, judging by votes) seem to consider this racism says something about you.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#73

Post by Helianthus16 »

psykotic wrote: post #68
Helianthus16 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and the first act of the Indian intelligentsia was against sati. It's easy to be against the most obviously wrong. My point wasn't that reform hasn't happened, my point was objecting to the casual generalization of China as currently superior to the West in gender equality--by demonstrating the concrete sexism of the past. Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we rea…

> Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day? A third of China's millionaires are female. We know concrete facts like that. Guanxi rules business in China, so it would have been very easy to keep women entirely out of the higher echelons had the culture been predisposed to do so. That said, there is still, for e…

In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. I posted in response to the statement "Much better then it's neighbors and also the West."

My point about foot-binding might have been off-topic, actually; I was trying to demonstrate that both cultures have, err, regrets about gender inequality in the past.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#74

Post by psykotic »

Helianthus16 wrote: post #73
psykotic wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day? A third of China's millionaires are female. We know concrete facts like that. Guanxi rules business in China, so it would have been very easy to keep women entirely out of the higher echelons had the culture been predisposed to do so. That said, there is still, for e…

In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. I posted in response to the statement "Much better then it's neighbors and also the West." My point about foot-binding might have been off-topic, actually; I was trying to demonstrate that both cultures have, err, regrets about gender inequality in the past.

> In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes.

One has to be careful comparing these things on a linear scale. But yes, I agree. Beyond the context of our immediate discussion, the equality of men and women in China is noteworthy because it contradicts the still-commonplace orientalist conception that Asian women are submissive.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#75

Post by Helianthus16 »

psykotic wrote: post #74
Helianthus16 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. I posted in response to the statement "Much better then it's neighbors and also the West." My point about foot-binding might have been off-topic, actually; I was trying to demonstrate that both cultures have, err, regrets about gender inequality in the past.

> In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. One has to be careful comparing these things on a linear scale. But yes, I agree. Beyond the context of our immediate discussion, the equality of men and women in China is noteworthy because it contradicts the still-commonplace orientalist conception that Asian women are submissive.

I wasn't using a linear scale; I was in fact rather pointing out that one shouldn't, and even if one did one could hardly conclude China was more advanced.

Now we're getting a bit off-topic, so I'm going to close with the idea that women in China could still be considered largely submissive if the ratio is a third instead of a half if one were to really press the viewpoint asking "In what ways could gender equality improve?" but that's a bit of devil's advocacy I'm ready to let fall silent. ;)

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#76

Post by drinian »

stcredzero wrote: post #56
drinian wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending months of your salary on a designer handbag, or whatever it is they think the culture values, is not a way to signal anything other than "I'm an idiot."

How about 3 months of your salary on a small stone of no special rarity or particular utility, just because an international cartel succeeded in telling people they should? The entire industrialized world engages in this foolery. This roundly shows the hypocrisy of those from the west making snide comments about Chinese engaging in signaling. It's a part of North American culture to engage in such signaling as a matt…

Hey, I just realized that I didn't read your comment throughly, and maybe you can help me see what I'm missing. Why shouldn't people criticize ghetto kids for buying expensive shoes?

After all, that's exactly the criticism that I was making; I had no idea that spending money you don't have on luxury goods would be a popular idea on Hacker News.

For the record, since people seem to assume otherwise, the only debts I've ever had in my life were a small auto loan and my large student loans, both of which I sacrificed to pay off before I turned 24 while putting away 15% of my salary into a retirement account.

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