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In China, alpha males carry designer purses

latimes.com

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Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#61

Post by [deleted] »

gbog wrote: post #49
widgetycrank wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China did not permit women to own land until 1950. After 1950 men were not permitted to own land either. :P edit: In some ways China should really be looked at as two distinct demographics, urban and rural. They have vast different values that makes the country completely bipolar. The gender attitude among the urbanites are much more progressive, in some ways even more so than the west, while in the countryside they…

This view on maoism and the infanticide allegation seem ungrounded to me. I know some alpha-males in China and they don't buy bags, they climb montains or sing in a punk band, like their mates in the West

[deleted]

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#62

Post by jcitme »

drinian wrote: post #57
stcredzero wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about 3 months of your salary on a small stone of no special rarity or particular utility, just because an international cartel succeeded in telling people they should? The entire industrialized world engages in this foolery. This roundly shows the hypocrisy of those from the west making snide comments about Chinese engaging in signaling. It's a part of North American culture to engage in such signaling as a matt…

What makes you think that the same Chinese who base their self-worth on Coach handbags don't also aspire to DeBeers diamonds? I stand by my comment, but doubly so because China is far from an industrialized nation. The people buying these things can't even drink their houses' tap water.

As a Chinese person: fuck you.

What decade do you think this is, the 1940's? Can't afford tap water? This is the kind of racism that people have to worry about, not stuff like censoring Mark Twain. Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly addressing issues ever will. Much of the cities in china are just as industrialized, if not more so, than counterparts in the USA. The upper middle class is a growing section of the population that produces a demand for more flashy products such as diamond rings or handbags. Doubly so as for the diamonds; the western nations is not above signaling with SUVs and other gimmicks (well gas guzzlers are less of a concern in europe, but not my point here). Pointing out that people not in a western country will save for a few months to buy an expensive item smacks of hypocrisy, especially when such people often demonstrates that they don't know the concept of saving in the first place. (Living within their means, anyone?)

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#63

Post by jcitme »

brisance wrote: post #45

I've never been to China, so I was a little surprised to read that the largest bill denomination is equivalent to just US$15. I wonder why the payment card industry or contact-less payment systems like NFC have not taken off like they have been for decades in other Asian economies like Japan and Korea.

they have. google "octopus card" it's used EVERYWHERE. similar systems are in place in shanghai and beijing.

alternatively, you can also look up WHY the country is cash based. it's an interesting read.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#64

Post by widgetycrank »

gbog wrote: post #49
widgetycrank wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China did not permit women to own land until 1950. After 1950 men were not permitted to own land either. :P edit: In some ways China should really be looked at as two distinct demographics, urban and rural. They have vast different values that makes the country completely bipolar. The gender attitude among the urbanites are much more progressive, in some ways even more so than the west, while in the countryside they…

This view on maoism and the infanticide allegation seem ungrounded to me. I know some alpha-males in China and they don't buy bags, they climb montains or sing in a punk band, like their mates in the West

I'm not sure which part about Maoism you are referring to.

No, the infanticide is not well-grounded, just reports.

I'm Chinese btw. I actually don't know anyone who buys these bags, I only see them on the streets occasionally. Giant wallets/strapless hand bags seem to be much more common among the middle-aged men. Most young people wear regular messenger bags.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#65

Post by atgm »

brc wrote: post #52
jrockway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because in our generation, we don't really "get" watches. I mean, I know that there are $20,000 watches in the Universe, but I wouldn't know one if I saw one. So I don't consider it a status symbol and wouldn't pick it up if someone was using an expensive watch as a status symbol. To that generation that "gets it", though, then perhaps watches are status symbols. A status symbol that people have these days is…

Trust me, if you saw a really expensive watch, you'd know it was an expensive watch. You don't have to know the list price of a sports car to tell it is expensive. It's obvious just from looking at it.

Maybe if you know about sports cars. I've seen, for example, RX-8s and thought "Wow, what a nice-looking sports car, I bet it's expensive."

They're pretty cheap.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#66

Post by Helianthus16 »

psykotic wrote: post #16
Helianthus16 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foot binding? Not saying things might not be generally 'equal' for women in China now, but things are generally 'equal' for women in the West. For certain values of generally. Seems to me societies have traditionally objectified/oppressed women world over.

> Foot binding? One unequivocally positive outcome of the communists winning over the nationalists that even an ardent anti-communist like Jung Chang will attest to was their gender equality reforms. The first and most symbolic act was a serious crackdown on foot binding.

Yeah, and the first act of the Indian intelligentsia was against sati. It's easy to be against the most obviously wrong.

My point wasn't that reform hasn't happened, my point was objecting to the casual generalization of China as currently superior to the West in gender equality--by demonstrating the concrete sexism of the past.

Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day?

And I am the sort of person for whom a gender equality rating is strongly influenced by high ratings in tolerance for homosexuality and other non-gender-norm labels.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#67

Post by brc »

atgm wrote: post #65
brc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, if you saw a really expensive watch, you'd know it was an expensive watch. You don't have to know the list price of a sports car to tell it is expensive. It's obvious just from looking at it.

Maybe if you know about sports cars. I've seen, for example, RX-8s and thought "Wow, what a nice-looking sports car, I bet it's expensive." They're pretty cheap.

Put a RX-8 next to a Pagani or even a Lotus and the difference will be quite clear.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#68

Post by psykotic »

Helianthus16 wrote: post #66
psykotic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Foot binding? One unequivocally positive outcome of the communists winning over the nationalists that even an ardent anti-communist like Jung Chang will attest to was their gender equality reforms. The first and most symbolic act was a serious crackdown on foot binding.

Yeah, and the first act of the Indian intelligentsia was against sati. It's easy to be against the most obviously wrong. My point wasn't that reform hasn't happened, my point was objecting to the casual generalization of China as currently superior to the West in gender equality--by demonstrating the concrete sexism of the past. Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we rea…

> Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day?

A third of China's millionaires are female. We know concrete facts like that. Guanxi rules business in China, so it would have been very easy to keep women entirely out of the higher echelons had the culture been predisposed to do so. That said, there is still, for example, plenty of low-level sexual harassment against women that wouldn't be tolerated in most of the West.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#69

Post by stcredzero »

jcitme wrote: post #62
drinian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that the same Chinese who base their self-worth on Coach handbags don't also aspire to DeBeers diamonds? I stand by my comment, but doubly so because China is far from an industrialized nation. The people buying these things can't even drink their houses' tap water.

As a Chinese person: fuck you. What decade do you think this is, the 1940's? Can't afford tap water? This is the kind of racism that people have to worry about, not stuff like censoring Mark Twain. Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly addressing issues ever will. Much of the cities in china are just as industrialized, if not more so, than counterparts in the USA. The upper middl…

Notions of the lower class of another nation does more damage than directly addressing issues ever will.

I think this is an important notion. The Chinese view themselves as the most sophisticated culture in the world. The Chinese view the currently dominant economic power of the West as having an unfortunate side effect. It hinders the rest of the world's understanding of the true value of Chinese culture.

How North Americans view the Chinese notion of cultural ascendancy is very instructive, because it's a mirrored by how the Chinese view a North American's notion of cultural ascendancy.

North Americans are well advised to consider this, as it's likely that China will soon have double the economic output of the US.

Re: In China, alpha males carry designer purses

#70

Post by stcredzero »

brc wrote: post #67
atgm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you know about sports cars. I've seen, for example, RX-8s and thought "Wow, what a nice-looking sports car, I bet it's expensive." They're pretty cheap.

Put a RX-8 next to a Pagani or even a Lotus and the difference will be quite clear.

Sports cars are an interesting object lesson in signaling. Often their track performance is way out of line with their price and/or appearance.

For many, an old Mazda MX-5 is a superior track-day car to many newer vehicles costing several times as much.

The Ariel Atom is especially instructive, as it achieves higher performance by dispensing with the sheet metal -- which is the primary medium for an automobile's signaling.

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