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DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

bbc.com

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Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#81

Post by ethbro »

skrebbel wrote: post #34
lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not difficult. There’s ample statistical evidence available, and super high quality resources online such as CDC if one wanted to educate themselves. It’s people being lazy and wanting to subject the world to their ego of “I’m so smart because I believe in something contrary to the mainstream or against the establishment”. There’s clear proof of fraud by the idiot that started the nonsense rumors of vaccine harm…

You're misreading the GP just so you can be a pedant about it. GP's post is excellent because it highlights where the irrationality comes from. If you want to convince parents with antivaxx tendencies of anything, don't begin by calling them lazy or having ego issues. Address their fears, explain how the risk of not vaccinating 1000x higher than any perceived risk vaccination can have. I'm a parent and my kids go to…

Friend of a friend stumbled across a more effective method.

Ask antivaxxers "What if anti-vaccine information is fake news planted by Russia to weaken our country?" (Not sure if the geopolitics play in your locale, salt to taste)

Only half-joking. It's surprisingly effective because it plays with their (a) propensity to believe conspiracies, (b) distrust of traditional media, (c) distrust of governments, (d) desire to feel smarter than everyone else.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#82

Post by MisterTea »

andrepd wrote: post #75
booblik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, what is the point of your comment? Are you saying people are not allowed to love their pets and should let them die, and not care for them when they are sick?

The life of ten thousand sick pets does not reach the value of one human life. I think the point of that comment was simply how some people have no access to basic medicine, while at the same time a team of highly trained people are dedicating their time and effort to saving a cat. Of course, this can be said of many things: jewelers, yacht - builders, sports car engineers.

> The life of ten thousand sick pets does not reach the value of one human life.

Typical selfish human response.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#83

Post by raxxorrax »

DanBC wrote: post #31
tpetry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is incorrect, at least in the UK. WHO provides information about which strains to use based on recent data about which flu variants are circulating. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-selection.htm https://www.who.int/influenza/vaccines/virus/recommendations...

Better than nothing but flu vaccines have a bad effectiveness compared to almost all other vaccines.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies....

It still is a bit of a gamble.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#84

Post by bluGill »

logicchains wrote: post #79
baq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

risk of something really bad happening after a measles vaccine is something like 1:40 000. risk of going deaf after measles is 1:1000. she's absolutely right, that's why she should be begging for the vaccine.

By those numbers, if she thinks the chance of getting measles is less than 1/40, then if acting purely selfishly she'd prefer not to get the vaccine?

No. If you hadn't added "she thinks" to your sentence you would be correct - but the if condition is false (the risk is worse than 1/40) and so she should get the vaccine.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#85

Post by aaron695 »

For Fucks sake.

The awful people in this world are the ones who know vaccines are important but just go on about anti-vaxxers while millions die who couldn't afford access to vaccines.

Any chance we could skip bullying anti-vaxxers, it's not on topic to this article and talk about how you can get vaccines to the people in the DR Congo. And it's not drones..... probably something to do with refrigeration and money. Or hiring remote people.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#86

Post by codingdave »

loriverkutya wrote: post #73
codingdave wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She also is not wrong because not even the CDC recommends the measles vaccine until 12 months of age. Hepatitis B is the only vaccine recommend for newborns. The rest are staged out over time, starting at 2 months.

This is false information. If you are in the risk group BCG is also recommended for newborns. Source: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/bcg-tuberculosis-... In the UK MMR is given to babies around age 1. The reason is that if their mother is vaccinated, they have the antibodies, but "These maternal antibodies decline with age and are almost all gone by the time MMR is normally given – around the age of 1 yea…

It is not false information, we just live in different countries, and I specifically said I was talking about the CDC. Here is their info: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolesc...

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#87

Post by dennis_jeeves »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #62
baybal2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a prisoner's dilemma, it's an idiot's dilemma. Confronting public idiocy saves lives, literally. I'm intolerant to idiocy, and will shoo away any loonie I come upon, sometimes physically.

Vaccines can kill or have hugely deleterious consequences for some. The Tetra Fluenz flu vaccine, according to UK medical authorities, has some negative effects (flu like symptoms, not just a pain in the arm) on ≥1:10 recipients, https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/29112 . The problem with the simplistic "just get vaccinated" approach is when it fails you've nothing to fall back on because you weren't honest to…

>tl;dr people lying that vaccines always work for individuals is bad in the same way as those lying that vaccines don't work.

Fully agree with you, pbhjpbhj. The nuance in the discussion is missing(no surprises). To add to the confusion we have both the govt and pharmas involved, and both entities are know for coverups. So who should a person trust? Yes a vaccine can potentially work very well, but it is only to the extent that it has been well designed and tested, no different from any other product or medicine.

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#89

Post by dennis_jeeves »

bipson wrote: post #21
beagle3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It IS a prisoner’s dilemma of sort. If everyone around you is vaccinated, you mostly enjoy herd immunity, so the benefit is much smaller. The risks are small, and most definitely worth it from society’s point of view, and likely from a personal point of view - They are, however, harder to assess from a personal point of view. I am somewhat familiar with a case where a serious underlying autoimmune condition was appar…

The point here is the limitation " apparently ". Huge part of the needless discussion about the risks of vaccines happening in well educated parts of the population are misattributed effects of vaccines. Everyone I know apparently knows someone that has a child that has a serious condition because of a vaccination. Yeah, right, if it was so clear cut and widespread, these vaccines would be pulled from the market yest…

>if it was so clear cut and widespread, these vaccines would be pulled from the market yesterday

bipson, Ever read of Vioxx or Thalidomide? Yes it was pulled, a tad late though. What is the point that you are trying to make that somebody doesn't already know?

Re: DR Congo measles: More than 6k dead in world's worst outbreak

#90

Post by bipson »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #62
baybal2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a prisoner's dilemma, it's an idiot's dilemma. Confronting public idiocy saves lives, literally. I'm intolerant to idiocy, and will shoo away any loonie I come upon, sometimes physically.

Vaccines can kill or have hugely deleterious consequences for some. The Tetra Fluenz flu vaccine, according to UK medical authorities, has some negative effects (flu like symptoms, not just a pain in the arm) on ≥1:10 recipients, https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/29112 . The problem with the simplistic "just get vaccinated" approach is when it fails you've nothing to fall back on because you weren't honest to…

Could you stop mingling "flu like symptoms" with "serious ongoing consequences"?

Every single Flu-vaccine has a high probability of showing flu-like symptoms. These are from a medicinal standpoint nothing compared to the seriousness of the real flu.

Even MMR-Vaccines are expected to cause a harmless form of "vaccine-measles", which can show up as mild rash, low fever, etc. Again, no these are not to be concerned about.

These vaccination-associated symptoms are widely harmless and there is no reason to mingle them with ongoing side-effects caused by vaccinations.

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