61–70 of 119 posts
Today, my child had their second dose of the MMR vaccine. I'm thankful for the access that we have to healthcare here in Norway. I can't imagine what it is like in the Congo, but I'm grateful that people and organizations are working hard to provide help to people in need.
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It IS a prisoner’s dilemma of sort. If everyone around you is vaccinated, you mostly enjoy herd immunity, so the benefit is much smaller. The risks are small, and most definitely worth it from society’s point of view, and likely from a personal point of view - They are, however, harder to assess from a personal point of view. I am somewhat familiar with a case where a serious underlying autoimmune condition was appar…
It is not a prisoner's dilemma, it's an idiot's dilemma. Confronting public idiocy saves lives, literally. I'm intolerant to idiocy, and will shoo away any loonie I come upon, sometimes physically.
The Tetra Fluenz flu vaccine, according to UK medical authorities, has some negative effects (flu like symptoms, not just a pain in the arm) on ≥1:10 recipients, https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/29112.
The problem with the simplistic "just get vaccinated" approach is when it fails you've nothing to fall back on because you weren't honest to start with.
"Take this and you won't get flu, it's _perfectly_ safe", the child gets sick from the vaccine, then gets flu anyway. So, now I should trust you? That would be irrational.
Vaccines are absolutely right for public health, they may not (in rare cases) be right for specific individuals. As vaccination rate increases (close to full vaccination) the mathematical reasoning based on not becoming personally sick sides with _not_ get vaccinated.
Moreover, vaccination advice from medics does change, infant flu vaccinations has been pushed back recently. Presumably you'd have people ignore that advice and vaccinate anyway because 'not getting vaccinated is always "idiocy"'? In your opinion it seems 'just disgusting whether vaccination is right is idiocy'?
tl;dr people lying that vaccines always work for individuals is bad in the same way as those lying that vaccines don't work.
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This doesn’t sound like a life-saving approach at all. Helps to frame it as the idea, not the person, that’s idiotic. Then work on being a better communicator who’s powerful at getting concepts across.
Entertaining anti-vaccination as a non idiotic concept costs lives. Maybe stupidity should be ridiculed? We've tried taking it seriously and it isn't helping.
It's irrational to not consider the question of whether taking a vaccine is right (for yourself [or dependents], and for the population).
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Proof? A quick google did not bring up the CIA, Congo, and vaccines.
The most recent accounts I've seen were in Cold Case Hammarskjöld (documentary). They found a few defectors/whistleblowers that had visited and worked at SAIMR's (South African Institute for Maritime Research) CIA funded labs used to synthesize these bogus vaccines, mainly HIV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLclWdK0cy4
White SAIMR ex-agent: beware of the "'white philanthropists' coming in and opening free X to help treat Y..."
Seems a mixture of ignorance, white, and first world privilege are at work here at the same time.
Today, my child had their second dose of the MMR vaccine. I'm thankful for the access that we have to healthcare here in Norway. I can't imagine what it is like in the Congo, but I'm grateful that people and organizations are working hard to provide help to people in need.
Yesterday I read about someone paying 4000 USD for an operation for their old cat. People have strange priorities. Perhaps it would be good to see what poverty is like.
And who are we to say they are wrong? The problem isn't that people care too much about their pets: it's that we don't care enough about human beings we've never met.
And it's a hard problem to solve, because it's like a wetware problem, and we are hard to upgrade.
Today, my child had their second dose of the MMR vaccine. I'm thankful for the access that we have to healthcare here in Norway. I can't imagine what it is like in the Congo, but I'm grateful that people and organizations are working hard to provide help to people in need.
Yesterday I read about someone paying 4000 USD for an operation for their old cat. People have strange priorities. Perhaps it would be good to see what poverty is like.
Today, my child had their second dose of the MMR vaccine. I'm thankful for the access that we have to healthcare here in Norway. I can't imagine what it is like in the Congo, but I'm grateful that people and organizations are working hard to provide help to people in need.
Yesterday I read about someone paying 4000 USD for an operation for their old cat. People have strange priorities. Perhaps it would be good to see what poverty is like.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It IS a prisoner’s dilemma of sort. If everyone around you is vaccinated, you mostly enjoy herd immunity, so the benefit is much smaller. The risks are small, and most definitely worth it from society’s point of view, and likely from a personal point of view - They are, however, harder to assess from a personal point of view. I am somewhat familiar with a case where a serious underlying autoimmune condition was appar…
The point here is the limitation " apparently ". Huge part of the needless discussion about the risks of vaccines happening in well educated parts of the population are misattributed effects of vaccines. Everyone I know apparently knows someone that has a child that has a serious condition because of a vaccination. Yeah, right, if it was so clear cut and widespread, these vaccines would be pulled from the market yest…
Scarlett fever vaccine (decades ago) made me very ill. Flu vaccine this year seemed (it could be coincidental) to make one of my children ill enough to be off school. These are expected consequences.
It's also expected that some few people will die and others will have life altering conditions. These vaccines should still be used, because vaccines address the needs of a population in the first instance.
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This mostly comes down to the irrationality regarding risks when you're having kids. Out of my own experience, and given the worst cases scenarios you hear from it's difficult not to fear for your loved ones (and I mean you literally feel it in your loins) especially when YOUR decision can have even the slightest chance of ruining their lives. -- Edit: Please don't get me wrong, I have kids, and their vaccines are up…
It’s not difficult. There’s ample statistical evidence available, and super high quality resources online such as CDC if one wanted to educate themselves. It’s people being lazy and wanting to subject the world to their ego of “I’m so smart because I believe in something contrary to the mainstream or against the establishment”. There’s clear proof of fraud by the idiot that started the nonsense rumors of vaccine harm…
We have public health care and you always get at least a vaccine against tetanus if you even hit your small toe and go to the doc. Slightly exaggerated but not by much. Nobody questioned it. And it wasn't esoteric moms on youtube that let people be skeptical, it was the pressure to enforce vaccination that did. I have no data, but these are the usual behavior patterns you can currently observe in almost all political debates.
Enforcing vaccinations is mostly a populist policy.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Entertaining anti-vaccination as a non idiotic concept costs lives. Maybe stupidity should be ridiculed? We've tried taking it seriously and it isn't helping.
Very recently UK medics noticed some highly deleterious effects of Tetra Fluenz flu vaccine and pushed back the earliest age for its use to 24 months. They not only entertained not vaccinating, they advise it. It's irrational to not consider the question of whether taking a vaccine is right (for yourself [or dependents], and for the population).