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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

411–420 of 513 posts

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#411
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and you can tie the two together more with higher equity component. But the argument here is that Facebook should pay engineers more because they make a lot of money. My point is, then should a company that doesn’t make as much money (which is most) pay their employees less? Or in the cases of companies that don’t make money, not pay their employees at all?

Shouldn't companies with better profit margins seek to increase worker compensation? Otherwise why should those workers want to work there?

They are already doing that, hence SV salaries.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and every person on welfare eats caviar and drives a Cadillac. The fact that this is your go to story on unions vs. the millions of well-protected and empowered workers across the world is just more evidence of how internalized this propaganda is in the US.

I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Un... https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/e... Discrediting single instances of bad union behaviour is an endless game, there's a lot of history to draw from.

This is just a logic error masquerading as an argument. Discrediting single instances of x’s behavior is an endless game, therefore all instances of x are bad. You haven’t provided anything inherent to unions to discredit them that wouldn’t be true of any other form of social organization, from governments to corporations.

There’s more history of unions winning protections, better wages, and improved quality of life for workers across the world than there are evidence of their corruption. It’s why millions upon millions of workers, have created, joined, and maintained them throughout the history of Capitalism. But feel free to try and convince everyone why, for example, the vast majority of trade and industrial workers in developed countries or everyone in the NBA are all just wrong and confused.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which he obtained from his talent, something he advertised as something he can do and others can't. Unionizing credit for his performances is as the same claiming credit for another man's work that nationalists do. https://youtu.be/CIaWo-BlBjs?t=74

The union doesn't get credit for his performance, he just places value in the union. The point is he's had a tremendously successful career while supporting the union. It hasn't hurt him. He missed out on star wars by choice.

I asked you what benefit he gets and you listed his 'respected career' and 'eventually an oscar'. You directly answered the question about what union benefits you get from unions with his career. You are changing your reply.

Had he chosen to do nothing that career would never have succeeded. The union did not benefit him his career, his actions did. He had the opportunity to choose SW and did not because the cost of losing union membership was too high. So again, what did the union benefit him? If he was simply choosing to value the union for his own reasons, then you haven't answered the question, you've just shifted the answer to Gary Oldman who is not here to answer for you.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't companies with better profit margins seek to increase worker compensation? Otherwise why should those workers want to work there?

They are already doing that, hence SV salaries.

While they are indeed very high compared to other professions and the national average, they are still on relatively low growth compared to others. There's also the argument that it's not software engineers that are overpaid, but that everyone else is underpaid [1].

[0] https://apnews.com/1a68c31f2cb54b15af536cbe168442bf

[1] https://qr.ae/TS0Zxe

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What argument do you have? I feel free to identify with and as a worker.

That's fine, but you're still a boss and your opinions on unions should be treated as those of a potentially bad actor. That's just the way it works. I can't trust you to tell me a union is a bad idea. You have too much to gain by saying no.

The world is a good place with good people in it. The perception of bad actors and bad intent is your worldview, not mine. You have too much to gain from painting the world as a bad place, it's not trustworthy. The innocent everyday man aiming to be king of the union has all the personal motive in the world to manufacture a utopian vision of worker's rights. The real world has good people bearing a cross of suffering to generate something of meaningful value in this world.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#416
post #5

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…

> Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis

You sure about that?

No, a coal vein isn't going to fall on our heads and the factory isn't going to burn down with the doors locked.

We still don't understand inflammation and stress, but it's not looking good right now, and death marches put you into both.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not. You are making a sarcastic comment to attack straw man claims that nobody made. I think that’s bad faith.

OK, fine, then, I'll bite. If that's not the "claim" you want people to extract from your drive-bys, then please substantiate: how--exactly--would that evil specter of a union prevented Carmack and his friends from founding iD to make Keen, Doom, and Quake? Be specific.

There is already a book that details the origin story, but like most things, happenstance and early opportunities play a big role.

Carmack would have never met Romero or the others, who first worked for SoftDisk, and were later allowed to cherry pick “cool” kids willing to work crazy overtime and spin out their own business unit called Gamers Edge, much to the dismay of the senior developers. That’s where they made Keen originally. According to the story, the rest of the developers actually did “organize” and threatened to quit en masse because they were jealous of the special treatment that Carmack and Romero were getting. The owner had to tell them, like it or not, Gamers Edge was what was paying their salaries and he had no choice.

iD would not have existed without Gamers Edge, and Gamers Edge would not have existed without SoftDisk.

Wolf3d and Doom would not have existed without both of them. And the world would be very different without those.

Carmack is smart and might have done something else cool, perhaps in a different industry with a different group, but it wouldn’t have been Wolfenstein or Doom. He would have been unemployable because he could not stand college, and he would likely not have started his own company, because business and management was what he detested and relied on his partners for.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softdisk

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't freely associate. Facebook employees who want to collectively bargain should be allowed to. That's just free association. They just shouldn't be allowed to prevent other employees from not unionizing and working without the union. And then, lots of people can choose not to unionize. Personally, I think few FBers will unionize. And then perhaps you could negotiate per…

If a union can't form an exclusivity agreement with a company, then all exclusivity agreements between any type of organization should be banned. That would be true freedom of association. Right-to-work laws just take away the right of workers to negotiate on the same terms that businesses do.

Oh no, I think they should have the right to negotiate an exclusivity agreement. And if the business takes it, so be it. I don't think they should be allowed to impose that agreement on the business through law.

When you come here, I will scab you, and picket them if they consider signing exclusivity with you. And that's okay. You can picket them for the opposite and eventually one of us will win.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#419
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think op is saying that the video game developers are choosing to subject themselves to it and therefore they don't need protections. Even though conditions are said to be bad studios somehow seem to have an endless supply of developers.

As do coal miners.

And soldiers. You'll hear rumblings that both are a form of class warfare.

I'm not trying to lump game developers into that class, but it makes me wonder what kind of 'happy accident' that is for influential people.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I googled it in 30 seconds. There are more too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Trade_Un... https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2tsg3e/e... Discrediting single instances of bad union behaviour is an endless game, there's a lot of history to draw from.

And there are endless instances of bad corporate behavior. So we are at an impasse.

Not when the orders of magnitude are different.
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