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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#251

Post by wang_li »

unapologetic wrote: post #242
omarchowdhury wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? Does not Facebook also retain the right to hire employees willing to take less?

That's why we need to fight right to work laws. If the entire staff is unionized and ready to fight, facebook can't just hire outside staff. Too much knowledge. Also the historical union attitude towards scab labour is another way to prevent this.

>Also the historical union attitude towards scab labour is another way to prevent this.

You mean violence? This is one of the reasons many people don't like unions.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#252

Post by jahaja »

Kalium wrote: post #212
jahaja wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could always compare unemployment rates in the US to those in France for a straight forward comparison to a European country. Then we could compare full-time employment rates for another straight forward comparison to a European country. Sure, go a head. Historically as well. Furthermore, what kinds of jobs are those actually? What is the quality of the jobs? Do they enable a dignified existence and so on? > The…

I wrote a more detailed response, but I have deleted it, as it was a distraction. Getting into the details of Detroit's economic history or a deep comparison between the US and French economies struck me as perhaps not as helpful as it could be while providing an endless profusion of points for differences of opinion to distract. I hope you'll forgive this editorial decision. Please accept my sincere apologies if I h…

No worries. I can of course understand that some might think so. I'm just cynical enough to assume that a corporation will move to a lower-cost country independent of the added 15% or whatever the amount in added labour costs that various benefits may add. If there's a profit increase waiting, they'll grab it.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#253

Post by binthere »

touchpadder wrote: post #29

Game developers are like actors in Hollywood. Massive supply of candidates so the pay is not that great. It's a cool and challenging work but everyone would prefer it than "boring" programming jobs which actually pay much better and don't require crunching.

I have witnessed more and more people from the gaming industry switching back to the boring programming jobs. Why? Because they get to have a life and play video games too.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#254

Post by unapologetic »

slg wrote: post #98
EthanHeilman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AAA video game development has many similarities with the production of big budget Hollywood movies. Hollywood was unionized in response to the incredible abuses of "the studio system". I wonder the degree to which the Hollywood union system can be brought to AAA video game studios. One issue is that AAA video game development is more internationalized than Hollywood. Overall I think we are likely to see AAA video ga…

A common factor between video games, Hollywood, and many other successful unions is that the supply of potential workers outpaces the amount of jobs available. This is the reason why general tech workers are treated better than people doing the exact same thing in the video game industry, because video games are just "cooler" and people are willing to sacrifice to work on them. This shifts the balance of power into t…

This is also why every big tech company pushes coding education so hard.

and immigration (no hate, I'm an immigrant because of it).

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#255

Post by [deleted] »

jahaja wrote: post #252
Kalium wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a more detailed response, but I have deleted it, as it was a distraction. Getting into the details of Detroit's economic history or a deep comparison between the US and French economies struck me as perhaps not as helpful as it could be while providing an endless profusion of points for differences of opinion to distract. I hope you'll forgive this editorial decision. Please accept my sincere apologies if I h…

No worries. I can of course understand that some might think so. I'm just cynical enough to assume that a corporation will move to a lower-cost country independent of the added 15% or whatever the amount in added labour costs that various benefits may add. If there's a profit increase waiting, they'll grab it.

[deleted]

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#257

Post by sudosysgen »

swalsh wrote: post #116

For the most part, I have never felt threatened by offshore workers. I am more productive, and my code is typically better quality. However the general quality has been improving. I can see a day where a unionized programmer is just too expensive, and difficult to work with compared to un-unionized offshore workers.

There are many many many games developped outside the US. Some of the biggest game companies aren't even American at all.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#258

Post by awb »

unapologetic wrote: post #240
throwaway5752 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Using revenue comparison is incorrect. Profit is more complicated because you have to add back in compensation (and if necessary be able to know when r&d comp is capitalized and be able to break out r&d versus sg&a if you only talking about comp for particular groups of employees) but it is the correct per-employee stat to compare. 2. Median employee salary is wrong, you should look at average salary if you are co…

That sounds insanely bad. Why should they get 40% margins? Form a union, demand more money.

50-100% margins are normal for many growing businesses. Once a company / industry matures it can get away with lower margins.

If you have too much money leaving the business through employees (CEO included) you slow growth.

If you don't have high enough margins you also slow growth.

It's a balancing act and free and fair competition usually provides the correct answer.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#259

Post by chobeat »

username90 wrote: post #178
tomtheelder wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live at the absolute _extreme_ of capital power over labor power. Unions can certainly do harm, and you are right that they shouldn't be seen as a pure and irreproachable force for good, but small anecdotes about individual bad decisions made by unions are not useful in discussions about this. In fact, they play to the already ridiculously anti-union sentiment that the vast majority of Americans (this article is a…

> We live at the absolute _extreme_ of capital power over labor power. No we don't, that is called slavery.

The definition of slavery changed over time. Be sure that salaried worker in a few centuries will be considered a mild form of slavery similar to indentured servitude, debt bondage or coloni's restriction of freedom under the Roman Empire.

"Were they forced to work? Yes and no. What happened if they decided not to work? Weeeeell... if they were rich, nothing. If they were poor, they would have died."

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#260

Post by praptak »

sct202 wrote: post #57
blululu wrote: post #49

There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…

People think that their specific workplace issues will be fixed by a union, but unions are run by people and you can get a weak union rep just like you'd get a bad boss, except that your paying directly for the rep. Or there might be rules on the book but no one enforces them or the rest of your union doesn't think your ideas are important enough to be included.

I cannot vote to remove my boss though.
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