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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#51

Post by umvi »

blululu wrote: post #49

There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…

USA has a pretty bad track record when it comes to unions. In theory they are great, but in practice they get implemented really poorly.

I think we need to examine how other countries do unions because I agree, the one union I was in for a short time (teachers' union in California - I was basically forced to join even though the job was only temporary) felt like a ball and chain around my ankle taking a cut of my pay more than I felt like it was empowering me.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#52

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

aabeshou wrote: post #34
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He talks about this in the video. In his own experience in his studios he never noticed someone being unfairly pressured to work more than they wanted, and he had colleagues who worked 9 to 5 and who did just fine. He also claims that from people in the industry he spoke to, most people under these situations choose to work overtime because they value their work a lot, and that he doesn't buy into social engineering…

well, if he's right then people might just reject the union. if his experience is biased and/or anecdotal, we'll find out the truth. either way, no point in trying to undermine or discredit grassroots unionization efforts.

The article isn’t describing a grassroots unionization effort. The CWA, a large external organization which expects to benefit from the creation of game developer unions, is pumping in an unknown amount of resources and funding.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#53

Post by aabeshou »

usefulcat wrote: post #46
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #2

As much as I don't like the idea of unionizing tech workers in general, game development does seem like it's suffering from the kind of industry-wide coordination failure unions are built to address. Every source I've ever seen is unhappy with months-long crunch time - are there any serious arguments that it's a good development model?

If that kind of development model was that much of a liability, you'd think at least one studio or company would have figured that out and would now be killing it as a result. I suspect it's just one of many factors, and probably not that important by itself. The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and…

> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions.

If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing.

> Given that, it's hard to see a way of solving these problems via unions that doesn't effectively increase the barrier to entry for game developers.

What barriers to entry do you foresee coming out of a union?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#54

Post by Tiktaalik »

I would strongly consider supporting a video game union, if only to help formalize the things that the good shops do and bring those practices industry wide.

Personally I haven't done a day of overtime in seven years and I feel reasonably compensated but there are clearly other places out there that are still exploiting their workers.

Improving worker input into production schedules and creating clear guidelines around overtime compensation time would probably reduce companies that rely on "crunch time" too much. Over time is ok if the work needs to be done, but workers should have a reasonable expectation of knowing how much of a break they'll get after. Not that it's some random (small) number in their managers' head.

There are plenty of other workplace issues aside from over time and wages that a union could help address.

Increasing transparency and input from workers into company finances and road maps, improving hiring practices, creating more opportunities for young new grads to break in, increasing diversity.

Standardizing crediting would be one close to my heart.

One time I was laid off from a company along with hundreds others due to various company issues, and eventually the project I was working on made it to market. I made it into the credits, but instead of having a "software engineer" title and naming the significant feature area I worked on, I was reserved in a long list of "Special Thanks".

This sort of thing is totally unacceptable. Would be an area addressable by an industry union.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#55

Post by EthanHeilman »

blululu wrote: post #49

There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…

AAA video game development has many similarities with the production of big budget Hollywood movies. Hollywood was unionized in response to the incredible abuses of "the studio system". I wonder the degree to which the Hollywood union system can be brought to AAA video game studios. One issue is that AAA video game development is more internationalized than Hollywood. Overall I think we are likely to see AAA video game studios unionized since the workers are both treated very poorly, skilled, powerful and are hard to replace.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#56

Post by abathur »

Aperocky wrote: post #3

Can’t say for video game industry. But software engineers are both in hot demand and well compensated, as such, I personally and the people I know are mostly content and not likely to join an union.

Compensation is an important role for unions, but it isn't the only thing a union can address.

For example (with the caveat that I'm not certain about its actual legality and how effectively unions could push back on these contract provisions), but I find employers asserting ownership over open-source projects/code people write in their free time particularly dystopic.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#57

Post by sct202 »

blululu wrote: post #49

There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…

People think that their specific workplace issues will be fixed by a union, but unions are run by people and you can get a weak union rep just like you'd get a bad boss, except that your paying directly for the rep. Or there might be rules on the book but no one enforces them or the rest of your union doesn't think your ideas are important enough to be included.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#58

Post by sonofaplum »

touchpadder wrote: post #29

Game developers are like actors in Hollywood. Massive supply of candidates so the pay is not that great. It's a cool and challenging work but everyone would prefer it than "boring" programming jobs which actually pay much better and don't require crunching.

actors have a long standing, powerful and successful union.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#59

Post by topkai22 »

criddell wrote: post #15
Aperocky wrote: post #3

Can’t say for video game industry. But software engineers are both in hot demand and well compensated, as such, I personally and the people I know are mostly content and not likely to join an union.

I wouldn't rule it out. Professional athletes have great unions. Hollywood screenwriters, actors, and directors have great unions (or guilds). Couldn't software engineers benefit from a similar organization?

Those unions evolved in pretty different- Professional athletes are typically in a monopsony (single buyer) situation, whereas the Hollywood situation evolved during the studio system era that was much more cartelish than tech today.

It's possible that workers joining unions will make life even better than today, but the previous high-paying occupation unions evolved in different circumstances that might matter.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#60

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

eropple wrote: post #42
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for filling me in. My question wasn’t rhetorical, and if Carmack is right that some games literally couldn’t be made without crunch time, that does seem like a good argument that it’s not a failure even if some people find it intolerable.

He's not. They could be made. They'd just cost more. The race-to-the-bottom pricing effect is not one caused by line developers and it's not caused by customers buying the games. It's caused by management and executives eating the seed corn. It's going to have to stop.

I’m skeptical too, but I’m sure you understand why a bald assertion that he’s wrong isn’t very convincing.
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