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Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

blog.arduino.cc

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Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#51

Post by freepor »

freehunter wrote: post #47
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is akin to "why would anyone buy an S-class Benz versus a Hyundai Elantra?" They exist at different positions on the price/performance scale. It's as simple as that.

It might be worth explaining the difference between the two. Plenty of people would have trouble understanding your analogy between the two cars. Jeff Bezos drives a Honda Accord.

I’ve owned both. An S class accelerates faster, is quieter at 80mph, has more tactile feedback in the switches and controls, is more comfortable to drive for 2+ hour trips, has more space in the trunk, has a better audio system, has a more adjustable drivers seat, has better climate control, and is safer in a collision.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#52

Post by freehunter »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #49
freehunter wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be worth explaining the difference between the two. Plenty of people would have trouble understanding your analogy between the two cars. Jeff Bezos drives a Honda Accord.

[response edited] Actually, I think that kinda makes my point better than I did myself! Using Mercedes vs Hyundai implies that there's a difference in quality, whereas my intent was to say that they are basically the same but with qualitative differences that only matter depending on the actual circumstances. I find that the typical answer to questions like this (e.g., the ones already given) tend to confuse the ques…

Again I'd have to ask you to explain the difference. If the differentiator is price, then why doesn't the richest man in the world have the most expensive one? It seems to me that if the richest man in the world drives an inexpensive car, then the more expensive car is worthless. And then to use the analogy, the more expensive Arduino is likewise worthless?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#53

Post by magicalhippo »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #33
sigmaprimus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong but I believe the problem with using these languages in industrial applications has to do with the back end running them as these os's are subject to system calls or interrupts that mess with critical timing situations. I believe this is the reason 3D printers and other CNC machines still use a seperate dedicated controller such as original arduino rather than just using the GPIO on a newer arm board…

I think the vast majority of these iot applications are something like “read; send; sleep 60”. But your point stands that people needing high precision and timing probably won’t reach for this.

That's the point of having the M4 cores alongside the M7 though, isn't it? Let the M4's handle real-time stuff like driving motors, and the M7 do communication and/or user interface.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#54

Post by dragontamer »

mdszy wrote: post #50

>The Portenta H7 is capable of running Arduino code, Python and JavaScript, making it accessible to an even broader audience of developers. "Here, now you can buy hardware that enables you to hire bootcamp-level devs to do your professional industrial work. That way you can pay non-professional wages for professional-level work!" Stop normalizing putting bloated, heavy languages on embedded platforms.

> Stop normalizing putting bloated, heavy languages on embedded platforms.

Last time I checked, PICBasic was a thing, and spawned a generation of programmers.

Comodore 64 Basic, and TI-83 Basic were also simplified programming environments. (TI-83 implemented jumps as a O(n) lookup throughout your code... jumping to later functions was more costly than jumping to earlier functions...).

Its the simple programming environments that spawn new generations of programmers. Today, "Basic" is no longer the starting point, today's beginner programmers use Javascript or Python.

But there always were "beginner" languages, no matter how slow computers were in the past.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#55

Post by magicalhippo »

embeddedpro wrote: post #17
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have thought that the real competition was the ESP32. It stays in the microcontroller space (no OS to manage, should stay lower power, etc.), dirt cheap, ships with wifi+bluetooth.

I'm doing a hardware selection and after much consideration, I'm picking a 3$ esp8266. I don't see any purpose of Arduino outside education for kids. Makers should use cheaper products/knockoffs at worse.

The ESP8266 doesn't have hardware PWM, and only a single ADC channel, both which can make it unfit for a lot of tasks.

That said, it does come with a lot of SRAM and the wifi/bt connectivity is obviously great.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#56

Post by freehunter »

freepor wrote: post #51
freehunter wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be worth explaining the difference between the two. Plenty of people would have trouble understanding your analogy between the two cars. Jeff Bezos drives a Honda Accord.

I’ve owned both. An S class accelerates faster, is quieter at 80mph, has more tactile feedback in the switches and controls, is more comfortable to drive for 2+ hour trips, has more space in the trunk, has a better audio system, has a more adjustable drivers seat, has better climate control, and is safer in a collision.

What I'm trying to do is prompt HeyLaughingBoy to provide useful context to their comment. Is this new Arduino really like the difference between an average car and a luxury car? Does it really make no difference which one you pick except for the money you're willing to spend?

No one needs an S-Class, it's merely a nice-to-have. Is that the same statement that no one needs this new Arduino? That they should only buy it if they have extra money to spend and want a luxury item?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#57

Post by whalesalad »

fastball wrote: post #13
rhcom2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad question at all. The Arduino offers you the ability to code on a lower level, while the Raspberry Pi is giving you a full operating system. Some projects, especially IoT, don't need all the overhead of an OS with and without that comes improved reliability and better understanding of the state of the device.

Can you not flash a pi with some non-OS firmware?

I've been extremely pleased with the Nerves project. It's Elixir (or any flavor of Erlang, really) top to bottom. The toolkit will build and flash the SD card, so you don't need to worry about anything except your app.

Very nice to be able to ssh to my Pi and get dropped immediately into an IEX repl (no auth, no command prompt, it's just IEX over SSH)

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#58

Post by wrycoder »

jws wrote: post #11

~$100 ARM M7 at 480MHz and ARM M4 at 240MHz 2MB SDRAM 16MB Flash USB, host and device WiFi Bluetooth 10/100 Ethernet MIPI DSI lcd panel DisplayPort over USB-C (graphics out) Integrated Li-Po charger 3x ADC 16 bit 2x DAC 12 bit, 1MHz 4x UART 22x Timers 2.95µA in standby mode That's obviously way too much to come out of the Arduino style pins. There are two 80 pin high density connectors on the back which have everythi…

The price seems very high for the category.

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#59

Post by magicalhippo »

ibobev wrote: post #44
swiley wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can and people do but it’s important to note that that the raspberry pi CPU is a tiny part of the SOC and the Broadcom proprietary part that bootstraps it is completely closed.

What exactly is the "Broadcom proprietary part"?

Wouldn't that be the GPU (VideoCore IV/VI)?

Re: Arduino Goes Pro at CES 2020

#60

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

freehunter wrote: post #52
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[response edited] Actually, I think that kinda makes my point better than I did myself! Using Mercedes vs Hyundai implies that there's a difference in quality, whereas my intent was to say that they are basically the same but with qualitative differences that only matter depending on the actual circumstances. I find that the typical answer to questions like this (e.g., the ones already given) tend to confuse the ques…

Again I'd have to ask you to explain the difference. If the differentiator is price, then why doesn't the richest man in the world have the most expensive one? It seems to me that if the richest man in the world drives an inexpensive car, then the more expensive car is worthless. And then to use the analogy, the more expensive Arduino is likewise worthless?

The reason I liked your answer is that it shows that the selection of Arduino vs Pi or Mercedes-Benz vs Hyundai is "application dependent."

Ultimately they're both computing platforms used for control purposes. In some cases, the predictable I/O performance of the Arduino is an advantage over the Pi. In others it's not. In some cases, the built-in network access, CPU speed, UI capability of the Pi is an advantage, in others it's not.

If Bezos actually does drive an Accord (with an entourage of security around him I imagine) then all that tells me is that for his "application," it's sufficient. It doesn't say anything about the merits of other cars.

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